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Catch the full episode: https://www.wealthformula.com/podcast/224-multifamily-macroeconomics-in-the-twilight-zone/
Buck: Welcome back to the show everyone. Today my guest on Wealth Formula Podcast, he's been on the show before. He's economist Ryan Davis. He actually joined us at one of our last Wealth Formula meetups. Of course, the last one we had was canceled but Ryan was at the one before that. He serves as a chief operating officer at Witten Advisors and provides fact-based research analysis and discussion to help clients like us formulate their apartment strategies and these insights and for investment decisions for multi-family development and buy/sell opportunities which as you can imagine we're all looking for some of this advice these days. Ryan has a PhD in economics from the University of Texas. Ryan, welcome back to Wealth Formula Podcast.
Ryan: Thank you. Glad to be back.
Buck: Yeah it's been like a pandemic ago when we last talked right? Listen, you know I want to kind of jump into the whole you know what the heck is going on, I mean the overall, if you would, you know kind of give me your overall assessment of the economy. I mean obviously we know these huge drops in GDP etc which were expected last quarter. How is this all affecting real estate asset prices especially you know apartments which is you know is our interest and something that you specialize in?
Ryan: Sure so yeah the great unknown is the pace of the recovery. So we had that big drop through April in terms of employment and then we got a bounce back in May and June and the hope was that it was going to be a V-shaped recovery. But then we saw virus cases ramp back up in the second half of June into the early part of July and the local economy started rolling back some of their openings and so with that, we've kind of stalled out recently. So we'll get the July numbers this Friday for overall payroll gains and that could I think the consensus is anywhere between one, one and a half million jobs it could be negative so who knows but it looks like the hope for a v-shaped recovery in the economy has kind of stalled out after the first two months of optimism. And so we think that going forward we won't see any the worst is behind us really and so we won't see you know the big losses that we experienced in March and early into April so kind of what we're calling for right now is for the national economy to continue to add jobs for the remainder of the year and then beginning next year a recovery should emerge and that would sustain demand for housing and ultimately apartments going forward. In the near term as far as multi-family goes we expect some pain through the end of this year and then into the early part of next year. In terms of pricing power, if we had to boil it down to one number it's rent growth so year over year effective rent growth we think that declines to eight percent rent cuts this year and into the early part of 2021. That varies considerably on a local market basis I think our worst-performing market is Metro New York City probably no surprise there but then also many of the other gateway markets such as Boston, LA, the Bay Area, etc. We expect rent declines to be lower than that eight percent across the board, however many of the inner west, Texas, southeastern market should outperform still see rent declines but not closer to five/six percent range at the depth and so we expect near-term pain but then as we get out into 2021 and afterward and the economy begins to add a lot of jobs we would expect rent growth to return to multi-family. And then what that means for pricing in terms of apartment assets for right now in the second quarter hardly any deals trade at hand so it's really tough to get a sense of where pricing is and with the deals that have traded though the cap rates have remained relatively stable which is a good sign. We've heard from some of our merchant builder clients where they had assets they had constructed and were going out to the market to sell in the early part of April they were saying 10 discounts in terms of the compared to pre corona levels but that has since come back in the last 45-60 days and maybe it's only one to two percent in terms of the haircut that they're seeing out there right now. And there's a just a ton of capital that wants to get back into multifamily at the same time there's hardly any distress out there right now so there's a lack of available to you know supply to buy and so everyone is just kind of in this standstill there's a big ass gap because buyers aren't willing to pay yesterday's prices for assets but sellers aren't willing to give any you know deep discounts right now and so it's kind of a standstill and we’ll see how all this plays out.
Buck: Yeah you know it's really interesting we're obviously you know through, you work with Western Wealth Capital, one of my partners and you know it's funny because we were kind of thinking well maybe there'll be some real buying opportunities but you know we've seen a little bit maybe just you know from buyers who are sellers who just are just wanting to get out while they're ahead maybe they made some money you know maybe they and at this point you know they're just thinking let's just cash out and maybe they're willing to take a little bit less but for the most part you know if you look across our own portfolio and it might be because it's largely again Texas and Arizona, etc that and maybe it's because it's mostly working-class B and you know high C class apartment but our portfolio you know the numbers are just as good as they've ever been in terms of you know occupancy in terms of even our we're still raising rents. And so when you look at that you're like well I mean how do you expect there to be any you know smoking deals out there if the sellers really aren't feeling any distress. So is there a difference you know when you look at something like a B and C class apartment scenario versus A right now or have you been able to break that down a little bit because I think the people I know who are in the A-class and new build are you know they're certainly feeling things a little bit more than we are.
Ryan: Yeah so what we've heard from some of our clients in terms of early on so may June in terms of rent collections class A's were actually from a nationwide perspective actually exceeded the class B and C product. Now we don't think that will continue going forward and the main reason is that new deliveries that are coming online they will compete with the existing top of the market product and so we think that it will be short-lived in terms of the top of the market outperformance and another part is due to just the nature of this downturn where low-wage sectors were hit extremely hard in April, got some bounce back in May and June but the leisure and hospitality sectors lower-paying positions those have been the most impacted so far. But going forward we don't think that this downturn would be any different than prior recessions in terms of the class A leading the way down in terms of jobs and occupancy and also rent growth or rent cuts in the near term. So class A’s will lead the market down but then as we get out into the later part of next year and into early 2022 then class A's would outperform the broader market. So yeah we think through the end of this year until early next that B's and C's will hold up relatively better but that's mainly a function of just the competition that it takes to get these new projects they will get leased up it's just a matter of the market-clearing price and so those have to compete those could be mostly with the top end of the spectrum and so we see big rent declines and concessions in the class A space going forward.
Buck: You know there's this thesis that's going around in the multi-family space and you know I've been sort of you know looking at it this way too for a while though I'm starting to you know feel like it's maybe not gonna happen is this idea that there's going to be a potentially before we really rebound and start heading up again that there’ll potentially be a you know big tsunami of defaults and things like that. Right now at least what I'm you know seeing and hearing about in terms of the lending markets and in terms of these properties, there really isn't much indication of that right now is there I mean what do you think?
Ryan: No at least not in the short term I mean again there's it goes back to my earlier comment there's been no distress really and so that is due mainly to the huge stimulus packages that have been passed those from a fiscal standpoint and a monetary standpoint which is it's crazy to think that GDP declined at an annualized rate by 32 however incomes soared and so that's all due to the stimulus that we saw and so that's helped prop up renters incomes and allow them to pay rent. Now going forward I think some of these the number of defaults I don't think there will be a tsunami, at least that's how we view it right now, ask me again in a week and it could change, but I think that the defaults will be very market specific and so those geographies that have been hit harder we'll see a larger number but many of the Texas markets, Phoenix, Denver, southeast high growth markets where you've got this short-term tailwind in terms of folks at the margin more and the trends that have been in place for years of folks moving from gateway markets into these inner markets will be kind of you know given a stairway shot really in the near term and so that would help to prop up multi-family fundamentals and so yeah if you're expecting a tsunami of defaults in any of those markets that I've mentioned again it kind of gets a little bit granular in terms of you know potentially Orlando might have some problems just with the amount of supply and then the you know low-wage in tourism industries being impacted more dramatically and that would lead to some weakness in Orlando but out outside of that maybe Houston you could argue you know somewhat but outside of those two and those those areas of the inner west Texas, southeast Florida should be but hold up you know relatively well and I would think that the main stress points will be out you know on the coast in California potentially portland we do think seattle holds up relatively well and then northeast in terms of you know New York and Boston as well so I think it's very locally market driven.
Buck: Yeah it's interesting you know we did we were a little worried about Houston too but our you know Houston portfolio is actually doing awesome it's not having any problems at all which is which was you know again, knock on wood that’s what it's been so far. Let me ask you another question you mentioned the pent-up demand of you know money on the sidelines waiting to get back in and you know and in many situations, they have to get back in right they're mandated to deploy capital and that sort of thing do you the one thought that I've had through this is you know multi-family and well multi-family in general has held up so well during this period of time does that potentially create a situation where you know the big money that's coming in starts looking at this even harder as potentially a little bit of a hedge or a little bit of safe haven. What what do you guys think is going to be the effect of that you know the relatively stable performance and then ultimately you know having all of this money on the sidelines,? Do you see paradoxical even further compression of cap rates over the next couple years? What's your thought on that?
Ryan: Yeah and so kind of pre-corona our forecast was for cap rates to continue to decline and you know taking a step back it was mainly driven by global factors with the aging populations across the globe that have built wealth up and all that investment needed to be placed somewhere. And so those trends were driving returns lower for longer and so those are the demographic that have not been affected by the pandemic. And so just from a global standpoint, we're expecting returns across all assets whether stocks bonds you know all classes of real estate whether it's multi or industrial retail office, etc those returns would continue to head lower. Now we've had the pandemic and we've seen multi-family and industrial hold up exceedingly well and who knows what to make of retail office and lodging just lots of pain and in those sectors and so if you need to be allocated to real estate then multifamily and industrial or where you want to be at least in the short term and especially if you're looking for consistency of returns and you know risk-adjusted on a risk-adjusted basis you know multi-industrial or have outperformed other asset classes and so really to get into the lodging office retail space probably more opportunistic mindset in terms of those assets may need to be repositioned etc and so I think a lot of that money that's out there is not looking to get there's a lot that's looking for that type of asset turnaround story but there's also a lot of money out there that needs the stability. And so that should continue to compress cap rates or put a really put a cap on that cap rates and so it would be no surprise if cap rates on an aggregate basis hold steady and maybe even decline despite a deterioration in short-term fundamentals and part of that is due to the long-term belief in apartments going forward and so yes there's a short-term dislocation where we expect some move-outs that you know this year actually there are a lot of move-outs that we expect and so there's going to be a lot of doubling up folks moving back in with their families but then there's going to be pent up demand as we as that recovery takes hold next year and that will be released and so we see leasing to be through the roof next year and then out into 2022. Then at the same time as that demand story improves in the short term we see starts decelerating dramatically so we've we're going from a 400,000 unit run rate to about 200,000 units by the early part of next year. And so new production is going to get cut in half now that we don't get any benefit of that immediately so we have to wait till later part of 2022 and 2023 before we see that slowdown and production really lift fundamentals and so I think everyone is seeing that yes there's some short-term disruption in the multi-family market right now, but the long-term drivers are there and if you have the capital to wait out this very painful period in the short term then there will be major benefits after that we should see after next year.
Buck: Now one of the things you said I think earlier is that the worst is behind us do you believe that's the case in terms of rent growth and you know rent cuts and that sort of thing right now?
Ryan: I think the worst is behind us in terms of the economy. I think that going forward we should continue to produce job gains on a monthly basis, though this next report could see some layoffs we'll see the consensus is one million one and a half. In terms of multi-family we do not think the worst is behind us we think that fundamentals will continue to deteriorate into the early part of next year we think that you know kind of right now in terms of year over year rent growth in the early part of this year let's call it three, three and a half percent we've since gone down to zero percent in the second quarter. So on a quarterly basis we've seen some dramatic rent cuts, again this is on a national basis and then as we move forward we see occupancy dropping by about three percentage points into the early part of next year, rent declines of about eight percent through the remainder of this year into the first quarter of next year and so no we do think that there will be some deterioration and fundamentals going forward. On the flip side of that might present some opportunities and so any assets that were purchased specially in your space in terms of if they were bought at the top of the market at the end of last year in the early part of this year and now that value-add story isn't there where you might not be able to get the rent bumps that you were expecting so some of those assets will have to be recapitalized and so that might present some opportunity as the year progresses but again like you said we haven't seen that materialized so far.
Buck: Yeah that's the tricky part right I mean it's sort of like I think when you're on the buy side here you're saying well I mean these prices that we're seeing right now you know with prolonged you know low-interest rates which we can pretty much guarantee at this point for a period of time and then the pent-up demand. It's sort of like okay well I mean this actually might be one of the better times to buy if you consider what could potentially happen in the next you know 18 to 24 months in terms of you know explosive growth. When you look at those indicators that you're you know that you're talking about that may lead to some of the more explosive growth metrics what markets come to mind the most for you?
Buck: Now one of the things you said I think earlier is that the worst is behind us do you believe that's the case in terms of rent growth and you know rent cuts and that sort of thing right now?
Ryan: Yeah so our general geographic areas that we like we like the southeast, parts of Florida, Texas and the inner west. We really like Atlanta, we like South Florida though there's a little more pain in the short term some of our clients are saying it kind of in terms of you know rent collections you know northeast but also yeah LA but then South Florida is outperforming those two areas but still lagging some of these other markets. So we like the Texas markets long term the interwebs you have Phoenix, Denver, Salt Lake as well. We like Seattle that's an outlier on the west coast but then the other markets whereas in the Bay Area we expect those you know rent growth numbers to average four, four and a half percent which stack up really well across the nation but for those markets that's a recession pretty much and so compared to what's normal and the cap rates you have to pay the rent growth numbers there kind of you know lackluster. So the midwest the markets they won't be hit as hard but still they don't get that explosive growth going forward and so we really like the inner West Texas, southeast of Florida markets and you know part of that has been driven being driven by the migration flows. So domestic migration numbers have really helped out all of these markets we've seen outflows from the northeast boston new york the bay area Southern California we've seen migration outflows from those markets into the you know inner west you know Las Vegas the inland Phoenix, Denver you know people moving from the coast into those markets and then you know also parts of texas as well but then in terms of the northeast the flows that are coming in to the Nashvilles the Charlottes, Raleighs, Atlanta, Florida markets we and then also Texas as well and so those trends have been accelerated at least in the short term, but it's important to remember that those have been going on for a decade at least even more and then other markets and so it's not anything new but at the margin that will support many of these other markets.
Buck: Yeah on the west coast I mean there's that flight to Arizona as well right from California. One of the things that you know is worth talking about is what effect this has had you know the pandemic and the recession on the lending market, with Fannie and Freddie and you know how that might be playing into any of the growth or lack of growth.
Ryan: Yeah I think on the financing side you know debt for stabilized assets it's there and it's cheap you may have to you know have higher reserves than you've had typically but for the most part it's there and so that's part of the appeal of buying assets right now with these record low interest rates. So I think for stabilized assets yeah it's there for new construction it is dried up considerably and this is a change in the last 30 to 60 days and so the fed does a survey each quarter of banks and their tightening of multi-family construction lending standards and that the latest report shows 70 percent of banks tighten their multi-family construction loans last quarter which we haven't seen those levels since 2008/2009. And so I think part of it's the lenders are trying to make sense of what they have in terms of all these other asset types in terms of real estate or retail, lodging, office loans, they're trying to you know spend a lot of time working those out and so then you add on the uncertainty in terms of the economic recovery etc, they've pretty much put a halt on new construction loans. And so that's been a big change here in the last two months call it. Then on the equity side I think returns have been increased but still available and interested but you know a lot of you know equity and especially focusing in on the new starts pipeline if all the deals that have been started are continuing and it's kind of a mixed bag from our clients in terms of are you seeing delays or actually some other clients that reported these they were able to speed up the timing in terms of getting able to get trucks into sites very easily and then also the construction workers that were on you know working on hotels motels those have come into the apartment sector and so that's provided more manpower in terms of getting these deals done. And so those that were under construction are continuing to proceed, those that were capitalized I think that but haven't begun those have been they haven't pulled out completely they just said let's press pause to see let's say can we get any break in construction costs over the next several months and so the equity and banks they're still willing to do it move forward on those deals that have been capitalized but are you know slow playing it. And then you get to the others where there's land sites and they hadn't been entitled and haven't been capitalized those deals we think have been shelved for right now and so it kind of where some opportunity could be is on the land side of you know potentially purchasing some land sites that might be teed up for development as we get further along in this recovery.
Buck: Again one of the things that you're saying though in terms of construction loans not being there again it helps us for those of us who have apartment portfolios already that are already there that that again goes to the issue of a simple supply and demand issue which we can benefit from if there's not a whole lot of new builds. You know this is a major driving variable in in apartment buildings nationally can you give us a little bit of the idea of you know just not being able to keep up with you know population growth in various parts of the country, can you give us a little bit of you know sort of a thousand-foot view on the perspective on how big of an issue that actually is?
Ryan: I don't know if it's that big of an issue you know on on the whole and I think that you know some of these higher growth markets in terms of where we've you know call it the Atlantas and North Carolina markets, Central North Florida, Texas, the inner west regions where we've seen large population growth statistics you know high growth markets but they're also they also tend to be the highest in terms of supply for housing and so it's more easy to build in those markets especially you know out as you get away from the know central cities etc and so where we've seen the the biggest barriers to supply are out on the coast and so we've seen you know job growth be pretty good in those markets but the supply hasn't kept up at all and so that's why you're seeing you know these big you know rent affordability you know problems in the coastal markets and so we think that supply not keeping up with the population dynamics is more of a coastal problem but then you know as you get into the markets that are more accepting of new development then you know we've seen housing supply increase at a rapid clip in many of these other markets I think you know Austin you know even through the June of this year permit activity for multi-family continued to set it reached big big levels and so I think year to date in Austin it's already pulled permits on almost 10,000 units already which is you know huge numbers. And so I do think that while these population growth numbers and some of these markets are you know off the charts especially compared to you know some of the coastal markets, that supply has been able to keep up there and so yeah you see pockets of where you know rent growth you know bumps up to you know five, six percent levels, it's especially that was the case in Phoenix and Las Vegas over the past two to three years where those markets were leading in terms of rent increases but they tend to you know be markets that you know will accept more new supply and so that will tend to even out over the long term.
Buck: How's Vegas doing out of curiosity because that one was just crushing it. It seemed it seemed a little dangerous you know it seemed like one of those markets where it's like wow is it real or is it one of those things that's just gonna go back to Vegas.
Ryan: Yeah exactly and yeah kind of thinking that you know before kind of goes back to your comment earlier about people moving from the coast to getting in their car and driving to the riverside and then Las Vegas and Phoenix and so it was benefiting from a real out-migration from expensive coastal California. That said that just the nature of this pandemic crushing leisure and hospitality and the conference circuit that the job losses in Las Vegas I think you know through April into May led the nation. We've seen some a bit of a bounce back there but really the question is you know how fast does the the conference you know a circuit come back, how fast are people willing to travel to casinos, I know they have already, but I think that pre-corona the growth was real and yeah absolutely now it's a little bit different you know market in terms of the cost and you don't want to go in there and if you're a developer you don't you know want to build a high-rise there and so your strategy is a little bit different but so far it's held up relatively well, all things considered, but still a lot of weakness that is materializing in Vegas.
Buck: Interesting stuff. Well listen I don't want to keep you all day long, Ryan, but it's been great talking to you. Where can we learn more about your work?
Ryan: Sure. Probably the easiest is wittenadvisors.com you can go there, all our contact information is there, feel free to reach out with a phone call or send me an email anytime and I'll be happy to give you more details on the services that we provide and how we add value to many clients that are in either owner, operators, developers, equity or lender clients.
Buck: Fantastic thanks again and we'd love to have you again you know in a few months to reassess where we are at.
Ryan: All right. Sounds good. Looking forward to it.
Buck: We'll be right back

Review: The Hermes & Hekate Road Show

The review originally appeared on my blog, but I’m reposting it on this subreddit as per the rules.
It can be frustrating when a really great audio drama podcast ends after only one season. It's frustrating, but that doesn't mean there aren't some true hidden gems waiting to be discovered. Why yes, this does relate to the podcast we're reviewing today. We're taking a look at The Hermes & Hekate Road Show.
The Greek Gods are no mere myth. They're real and very much active in the modern world. Specifically, they're messing around in the modern-day United States of America. Hephaestus' anvil has gone missing, and Zeus has tasked Hermes, god of thieves and travelers (among other things), and Hekate, goddess of witchcraft and crossroads, to retrieve it. However, they'll soon find that's far from the only mythological mishap going on in America. The two gods are about to take a motorcycle road trip of mythic proportions across America.
I love pretty much anything related to Greek Mythology, or mythology in general. If you follow my blog, you’ll know how much I love Percy Jackson and American Gods. As such, I absolutely loved this podcast. It only lasted for one season of five episodes. There were plans for a season two, but it never materialized. Sometimes life gets in the way, or creators move on to other projects. That's just how it goes. Still, what a season it was.
The series is created by Genevieve Williams and Ray Snyder. The idea started when they were at a festival late at night, and they began musing on what kind of vehicles the Greek Gods would drive. Then they began to ponder what it would be like to set those gods loose on the roads of modern-day America. It when through a few mutations before they settled on the final form. They cut down the number of characters, and focused on their original idea of Hermes and Hekate on a motorcycle trip. They figured the two gods would be a good fit, as they often appeared together in myths as fellow psychopomps. Psychopomps are those who help guide the dead to the afterlife.
The original plan was for Genevieve to voice Hekate and Ray to voice Hermes. That first half did happen, but Hermes wound-up being voiced by their good friend Greg Watridge (hope I spelled that correct). Meanwhile, Ray voiced a hobo, who has a bit more to him, but telling more would be spoilers. Really, the whole cast is absolutely phenomenal, and everyone does a great job.
Zeus act as the narrator who introduces each episode and sets the stage for the adventures to come. He makes an on-screen, for want of a better term, in episode three. I appreciated that he is portrayed as honorable, noble, and a competent leader rather than a one-not sex joke. That being said, both Hermes and Hekate snark about Zeus' many affairs behind his back. Not that Hermes is one to talk, given how he cheerily remarks about his own escapades at a pride parade in San Francisco. The opening and closing music is rock guitars, and it really adds to the motorcycle trip vibe of the show. It is nice that the show didn't shy away from the fact that many of the gods were, by modern standard, bisexual. It is true to the original mythology.
Our leading deities are both great. Hermes is energetic, easily distracted, and a bit overly flirtatious at times. Meanwhile, Hekate plays the snarky straight woman to Hermes' antics, but occasionally shows that she's not as above it all as she seems. They're also joined by several other members of the Greek Pantheon, and occasionally gods from other pantheons. Yeah, turns out the Olympians aren't the only gods running around modern America. In episode three we get to meet Baron Samedi of the Voodoo Loa, and a Native American goddess at the Grand Canyon, with mention of Anansi from West African mythology.
Athena and Ares join in the fun starting with episodes four and five, though Athena also briefly appeared in episode two and three. Athena takes the form of a butch-looking cop. She does her best to remain calm and level-headed, but there are times her temper gets the better of her. Again, not inconsistent with how she is in Greek Mythology. Ares appears as a Hell's Angels biker and tries his best to put on a though guy persona. He tries, but all the other gods never let him forget the time he was captured by giants and held hostage for months. Athena and Ares don't like each other and constantly make passive aggressive swipes, which kind of makes sense. Athena was the patron goddess of Athens, and Ares was the patron god of Sparta. Both city-states were bitter rivals, and this eventually lead to the Peloponnesian War.
It is explained that the gods don't need worship or sacrifices per se, but they do feel strong when they're around things related to them. For example, Hermes feels best when he's at the Caesar's Palace Casino in Las Vegas. Well, he is a god associated with gambling, and the casino does have a Greco-Roman theme. I'd imagine Athena probably loves to visit the full-scale Parthenon replica in Nashville; especially since it looks just like the Parthenon did in Ancient Athens, giant statue of her and all. The gods are perfectly capable of influencing the modern world. For example, the main plot of the season involves having to track down four items used in the judgment of the dead. Not having them around is causing the natural balance to be thrown out of whack. This is causing unusual weather events. So yeah, apparently the real cause of global warming isn't fossil fuels, but missing items from the Ancient Greek underworld.
I loved the way the podcast juxtaposes Greek Mythology and Americana. For example, at one point Hermes and Hekate have to take down a cyclopes at a roadside attraction claiming to be built on top of a dimensional riff. Though technically this turned out to be true, just not in the way the owners claimed. That's what I've always loved about urban fantasy. With urban fantasy you don't have to go to some far-off fantasy land like Narnia, Middle-Earth, or Britain to have an adventure. You can find adventure right in your own backyard. It's why I always preferred to Percy Jackson to Harry Potter. Yeah, technically Harry Potter is urban fantasy, but the Wizarding World might as well be some far-off high fantasy world. With Percy Jackson it was like "Hey, that could actually happen!" Well, I didn't literally think that it could happen, but it felt more real and relatable to me.
There is a certain kind of magic that can be found in the mundane world if you know where to look for it. I've always been of the opinion that America has a certain magical quality to it that could easily rival and fantasy book. That's very much a connection The Hermes & Hekate Road Show shares with American Gods.
There were plans for a season two, but it sadly never materialized. The plans was not necessarily to feature Hermes and Hekate, but perhaps another set of Greek deities who wouldn't get along. The first season came out in 2013, which is obvious because Athena uses an iPhone 5S, and there have been Facebook posts from 2015 and 2016 indicating the creators are still working on the show. Perhaps there is hope that more seasons will appear someday, but I wouldn't get those hopes up to high. Thankfully, all of the major plot threads are wrapped up by the end of the first season, so it doesn't end on a cliffhanger or anything. I desperately wish that we'd gotten more seasons, because the show is so good, but we should be thankful for what we do have.
So there you have it. The Hermes & Hekate Road Show is a podcast about Ancient Greek Gods on a motorcycle trip of mythic proportions across modern day America. I can't recommend it enough. Check it out today, you'll be glad that you did.
Also, here’s the link to the original blog post. You won’t find anything you didn’t find here, but if you want it, here it is: http://drakoniandgriffalco.blogspot.com/2020/03/the-audio-file-hermes-hekate-road-show.html?m=1

July MLS Thread

[For Sale] Vince Staples, Anderson Paak, Kid Cudi, Rolling Stones, U2, Pink Floyd

Can only ship to the US minus Alaska and Hawaii. Shipping is $5 plus $.35 for each individual LP.

Led Zeppelin Physical Graffiti VG/VG+ $17
Denzel Curry - 13 NM/VG+ Does not come with slipmat $70
Vince Staples - Prima Donna NM/VG+ Not signed $70
Anderson Paak - Venice NM/NM- This is the UO edition and is Orange and yellow marble $42
Kid Cudi - Indicud NM/VG+ $25
The Rolling Stones - Beggars Banquet VG+/VG+ $18.50 https://www.discogs.com/sell/item/1049361833
Yellow Magic Orchestra - Computer Game VG+/VG+ $27
Pink Floyd - Meddle VG/VG $18
The Rolling Stones - Between the Buttons VG/G+ $10
U2 - War VG+/VG+ $9
The Rolling Stones - Goats Head Soup VG/VG $8.50
The Rolling Stones - More Hot Rocks VG/VG $8.50
[SOLD] ~~Richard Pryor - That Nigger's Crazy VG/VG $3.50~~
[SOLD] ~~R. Kelly - Ignition & Ignition Remix VG/VG $3.50~~
REO Speedwagon - You Can Tune A Piano, But You Can't Tuna Fish VG+/VG+ $2.50
Arlo Guthrie - Washington County VG/VG $4.50
The Rolling Stones - BigHits (High Tide and Green Grass) G/G $1.59
The Rolling Stones - Get Yer Ya-Yas Out! G+/G $3.53
[SOLD] ~~Dr. Dre - Still D.R.E VG/VG $6.50~~
Kansas - Leftoverture VG+/VG 4.50

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Nat King Cole With Orchestra And Chorus Conducted By Nelson Riddle Wild Is Love G VG $1.50
The Mamas & The Papas The Mamas & The Papas P G+ multiple scratches, solid sleeve but a split in the middle on the bottom $0.75
Elvis Presley Elvis As Recorded At Madison Square Garden F P $0.50
The Muppets The Muppet Movie - Original Soundtrack Recording G VG record is in rough shape but great cover $1.00
Captain And Tennille Song Of Joy G G $0.75
Rufus & Chaka Khan Ask Rufus VG VG comes with poster $1.00
Johannes Brahms / Carlo Maria Giulini, Philharmonia Orchestra Symphony No. 1 In C Minor G+ VG $1.50
The Oak Ridge Boys Greatest Hits G VG $0.50
Alabama Mountain Music G VG $1.00
Alabama My Home's In Alabama G VG $1.00
Alabama Feels So Right G G $0.50
Dal McKennon Walt Disney Presents The Story of Treasure Island G+ VG $1.50
Bobby Helms Jingle Bell Rock G G $0.75
Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, Maurice de Abravanel, Utah Symphony Orchestra 1812 Overture / Romeo And Juliet VG VG $1.00
Roy Orbison Roy Orbison's Greatest Hits F G+ $0.50
Ferrante & Teicher The Very Best Of Ferrante & Teicher VG G+ $0.75
Igor Stravinsky - Radio-Symphonie-Orchester Berlin, Lorin Maazel The Firebird (Ballet Suite) â€¢ Song Of The Nightingale G+ VG $0.75
Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky - Van Cliburn, Kiril Kondrashin Concerto No. 1 G+ G+ $0.75
Johannes Brahms - Arturo Toscanini And The NBC Symphony Orchestra Symphony No. 4 G+ G+ $1.00
Morton Gould And His Orchestra The Beautiful Music of Edvard Grieg: Peer Gynt VG G+ $0.75
Geraldine Don't Fight The Feeling G+ VG $0.75
Dionne Warwick Dionne G G+ $0.75
Steve Miller Band Number 5 G G+ $1.00
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"Annie" Original Cast Annie (Original Cast Recording) G+ G+ $0.50
10cc Look Hear? $3.00
1776 Original Broadway Cast 1776 - A New Musical G+ VG $0.99
ABC The Lexicon Of Love $4.00
Aerosmith Rocks $8.00
Al Di Meola Casino VG VG $2.00
Al Di Meola Electric Rendezvous VG+ VG $2.50
Aldo Nova Aldo Nova VG+ VG $1.00
Alex North The Sound And The Fury VG VG $4.00
Alex Taylor With Friends And Neighbors G+ G+ $1.10
Alexis Weissenberg Sonatas No. 62 In E-flat / No. 50 In D / No. 33 In C Minor G+ G+ $0.50
Alice Cooper Love It To Death G G $5.00
Alice Cooper Billion Dollar Babies $12.00
America Holiday G G $0.25
America History Â· America's Greatest Hits G+ G+ $0.75
America Live G VG $1.25
AndrÃ© Previn Trio The Light Fantastic, A Tribute To Fred Astaire $2.00
Andrew Gold Whirlwind VG VG $1.25
Andy Williams Alone Again (Naturally) VG VG $1.00
Arthur Rubinstein The Chopin Ballades $3.00
Arthur Rubinstein Artur Rubinstein - Chopin VG G+ $1.50
Aztec Two-Step Second Step VG G+ $1.00
Aztec Two-Step Adjoining Suites VG G+ $1.00
Aztec Two-Step Two's Company VG G+ $1.00
Ballet Folklorico De Mexico Ballet Folklorico De Mexico $4.00
Barbara Mandrell / Lee Greenwood Meant For Each Other VG+ VG+ $1.00
Barbra Streisand The Way We Were warped $1.00
Barbra Streisand Stoney End G+ VG $0.75
Barbra Streisand A Happening In Central Park G+ G+ $0.50
Barbra Streisand Barbra Streisand's Greatest Hits G+ VG $0.75
Barbra Streisand My Name Is Barbra, Two... G+ G+ $0.75
Barbra Streisand Streisand Superman G+ G+ $0.75
Barbra Streisand Barbra Streisand's Greatest Hits - Volume 2 G VG $0.50
Barbra Streisand Memories G+ VG $0.75
Barry Manilow Live G G+ $2.00
Beatles Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da G+ Generic $7.00
Bee Gees Here At Last - Live G+ G+ $0.75
Beverly Sill Music Of Victor Herbert G+ VG $1.00
Billy Squier The Tale Of The Tape $5.00
Billy Vaughn Sukiyaka $2.00
Bonnie Raitt Sweet Forgiveness VG G+ $1.25
Bonnie Raitt Sweet Forgiveness VG VG $1.50
Boz Scaggs & Band Boz Scaggs & Band VG G+ $1.00
Brand X Moroccan Roll $3.00
Brand X Product VG+ VG+ $2.50
Brothers Four The Big Folk Hits $1.00
Buffy Sainte-Marie Little Wheel Spin And Spin VG G+ $1.25
Burl Ives Burl Ives Sings Little White Duck And Other Children's Favorites G+ G+ $1.00
Burt Bacharach Plays His Hits $1.00
Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach The Harp VG+ VG $1.00
Carly Simon Boys In The Trees VG VG $0.50
Carol Channing, Florence Henderson The Great Stars of Broadway $1.00
Cat Stevens Cat Stevens' Buddha And The Chocolate Box missing outermost sleeve $7.00
Cate Bros. Band Cate Bros. Band VG+ VG $1.25
Charlie Musselwhite Louisiana Fog G+ VG $5.50
Cher The Shoop Shoop Song (It's In His Kiss) $2.00
Chuck Mangione Main Squeeze VG VG $0.75
Clannad Magical Ring $3.00
Clannad Crann Ull VG+ VG $3.50
Cleveland Orchestra, Artur Rodzinski Debussy: La Mer (The Sea) G G $1.00
Climax Blues Band 1969 / 1972 VG VG $3.50
Cooper Brothers Cooper Brothers VG VG $0.75
Cream Goodbye G G $2.00
Crusaders Southern Comfort G+ G $1.00
Dan Fogelberg Nether Lands G+ VG $1.00
Daniel Adni, Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, Kenneth Alwyn Music From Films For Piano & Orchestra VG G+ $1.00
David Merrick And Leland Hayward Gypsy - A Musical Fable VG VG $1.00
David Riordan Medicine Wheel VG G+ $1.00
David Sanborn A Change Of Heart VG+ VG $1.00
David Soul Playing To An Audience Of One VG VG $1.25
Dexter Wansel What The World Is Coming To VG G+ $0.75
Dick Hyman And His Orchestra Provocative Piano VG VG $1.00
Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau Lieder Von Debussy Und Ravel $1.00
Dire Straits Love Over Gold VG VG $3.75
Don Burrows Duo VG G+ $3.00
Eddie Kochak Strictly Belly Dancing (Ya Habibi #2) G+ G $1.00
Elton John Elton John VG VG $1.75
Emerson, Lake & Palmer Emerson, Lake & Palmer $4.00
Emerson, Lake & Palmer Brain Salad Surgery VG G+ $3.75
Engelbert Humperdinck Just For You VG G $1.00
Engelbert Humperdinck Just For You VG G+ $1.25
Enoch Light And His Orchestra Stereo 35/MM $3.00
Eugene Ormandy And The Philadelphia Orchestra Symphony No. 1 In C Minor G+ G+ $0.75
Eugene Ormandy And The Philadelphia Orchestra Christmas $3.00
Evelyn King Music Box $4.00
Felix Mendelssohn-Bartholdy Sonatas For Cello And Piano $2.00
Felix Slatkin Charge ! $4.00
Fleetwood Mac Tusk 7" Single $2.00
Gene Watson Heartaches, Love & Stuff VG VG $1.00
George Abdo And His "Flames Of Araby" Orchestra The Art Of Belly Dancing G+ G+ $0.75
George Abdo And His "Flames Of Araby" Orchestra The Joy Of Belly Dancing G G $0.75
George Abdo And His "Flames Of Araby" Orchestra Belly Dancing With George Abdo G+ G+ $0.75
George Gershwin Rhapsody In Blue And Porgy And Bess G VG $1.00
Giacomo Puccini La BohÃ¨me VG VG $1.00
Gian Carlo Menotti Amahl and the Night Visitors VG VG $1.00
Gilbert & Sullivan The Mikado $3.00
Gloria Gaynor I Am What I Am VG VG 12' Single $0.75
Harry Chapin Sequel VG VG $0.90
Hilton Kean Jones Hilton Kean Jones' Eastmontage And Performances By Eastman School Of Music Student Ensembles VG G+ $2.50
Holly Near Imagine My Surprise! VG VG $0.75
Holly Near, Arlo Guthrie Harp VG+ VG $0.75
Ian Thomas Riders On Dark Horses VG VG $1.25
Igor Stravinsky Stravinsky Conducts Histoire Du Soldat Suite: Pulcinella Suite VG G+ $1.75
Jackie Gleason Jackie Gleason Presents The Torch With The Blue Flame G+ G+ $1.00
Jackson Browne Lawyers In Love VG G+ $0.75
Jaime Brockett Remember The Wind And The Rain G G+ $1.00
Jake Walton The Gloaming Grey VG VG $1.00
James Gang Yer' Album G G+ $1.75
James Last Guitar Ã€ Gogo $1.00
James Levine Conducts Johannes Brahms, The Chicago Symphony Orchestra Symphony No. 1 VG+ VG $2.00
James Taylor Dad Loves His Work VG VG $0.75
Jane Olivor The Best Side Of Goodbye VG VG $0.50
Jean-Pierre Rampal / Claude Bolling Suite For Flute And Jazz Piano VG G+ $0.65
Jeff Lass Conversations With Bill Evans $1.00
Jerome Kern Roberta VG G+ $1.00
Jesse Colin Young Song For Juli $2.00
Jesse Winchester Jesse Winchester G+ G+ $2.00
Jim Kweskin & The Jug Band Garden Of Joy VG G+ $3.50
Jim Reeves Gentleman Jim $2.00
Jimi Hendrix Rainbow Bridge / Original Motion Picture Sound Track G G $3.00
Jimi Hendrix Crash Landing G+ G+ $4.50
Jimmie Lunceford "Harlem Shout" Vol. 2 (1935-1936) G+ G+ $1.00
Jimmie Spheeris The Dragon Is Dancing G+ G+ $1.00
Joan Armatrading Show Some Emotion $3.00
Joan Baez In Concert G+ G+ $1.35
Joan Baez Farewell, Angelina $3.00
Joe Walsh The Smoker You Drink, The Player You Get VG VG $2.75
Johann Sebastian Bach, Berliner Philharmoniker St. Matthew Passion $4.00
Johannes Brahms Piano Quintet In F Minor, Op.34 VG+ VG $5.50
Johannes Brahms Piano Trio No. 1 In B Major (Op.8) / Piano Trio No.3 In C Minor (OP.101) VG+ VG $8.50
Johannes Brahms, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau Ein Johannes-Brahms-Liederabend VG G+ $1.00
John Renbourn The Lady And The Unicorn VG VG $3.00
John Renbourn Group The Enchanted Garden VG VG $1.75
John Robertson And His Multi-Trumpets John Robertson And His Multi-Trumpets $1.00
John Travolta & Olivia Newton-John You're The One That I Want $2.00
Johnny Mathis Merry Christmas G+ VG $0.75
Johnny Mathis More Johnny's Greatest Hits G+ G+ $0.50
Jon Butcher Axis Jon Butcher Axis $2.00
Joni Mitchell Mingus $6.00
Jose Greco And Company Flamenco Fury G+ G+ $1.00
Joseph Haydn Mass In D Minor: Missa In Angustiis (Nelson Mass) VG VG $0.75
Josh White Live! $5.00
Kevin Johnson Man Of The 20th Century $1.00
LÃ©o Chauliac Et Son Orchestre The Best Of The Beatles $2.00
Leonid Kogan, Rudolf Barshai Kogan And Barshai Play - Vivaldi Rameau Handoshkin VG G+ $1.00
Loggins And Messina Sittin' In VG+ VG $3.00
Loggins And Messina Loggins And Messina G+ VG $0.75
Loggins And Messina The Best Of Friends VG G+ $0.75
Marie Claire Jamet Four Centuries of Music for the Harp VG+ VG $1.25
Mark Holden I Wanna Make You My Lady $2.00
Marshall Tucker Band Running Like The Wind VG VG+ $0.75
Mary Martin, Ezio Pinza, Rodgers & Hammerstein South Pacific With Original Broadway Cast $1.00
Maurice Ravel, Jean Martinon, The Chicago Symphony Orchestra Bolero (Great Ravel Showpieces) VG VG $0.75
Max Steiner Now, Voyager - The Classic Film Scores Of Max Steiner VG VG $0.75
McKendree Spring 3 VG G+ $1.50
Melos Ensemble Of London, Maurice Ravel Introduction And Allegro / Sonata For Flute, Viola And Harp VG VG $2.00
Michael Franks The Art Of Tea VG VG $1.25
Michael Jackson One Day In Your Life G+ G+ $1.35
Monkees It's Nice To Be With You / D. W. Washburn $3.00
Moon Martin Escape From Domination $3.00
Moravian Festival Chorus And Orchestra Under Thor Martin Johnson The Unknown Century Of American Classical Music (1760-1860) $5.00
Mose Allison Mose Allison Sings $1.00
Mud Oh Boy $1.00
Music Minus One Oklahoma! VG VG $1.00
Neil Diamond Headed For The Future VG VG $1.00
Neil Young & Crazy Horse Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere G+ G+ $3.00
New York Pro Musica, Alfonso X El Sabio Spanish Medieval Music $10.00
No Artist Railroad: Sounds Of A Vanishing Era $3.00
No Artist Environments (New Concepts In Stereo Sound - Disc 1) $3.00
NoÃ«l Coward The Noel Coward Album VG VG $1.65
Norrie Paramor His Strings And Orchestra In London, In Love $4.00
NSYNC Bye Bye Bye (The Remixes) $3.00
Olivia Newton-John Have You Never Been Mellow G G+ $0.50
Ottorino Respighi Ancient Airs & Dances VG VG $7.00
Passport Cross-Collateral $3.00
Passport Infinity Machine VG VG $5.69
Paul Anka Anka G+ VG $0.75
Paul Anka Paul Anka's 21 Golden Hits G+ VG $1.00
Paul Dukas, Modest Mussorgsky, Maurice Ravel Sorcerer's Apprentice / A Night On Bare Mountain / Rapsodie Espagnole G+ G $1.00
Paul Kantner / Jefferson Starship Blows Against The Empire G+ G+ $0.75
Pearl Chertok Strings Of Pearl G+ G+ $4.00
Peter, Paul & Mary In The Wind $3.00
Philadelphia Brass Ensemble A Festival Of Carols In Brass $1.00
Philip Rambow Shooting Gallery G+ VG $1.00
Placido Domingo With John Denver Perhaps Love $4.00
Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky - David Oistrach, Eugene Ormandy, The Philadelphia Orchestra Violin Concerto In D G+ G+ $1.25
Racey Some Girls $2.00
Ray Charles The Fabulous Ray Charles G+ G+ $1.75
Ray Conniff I Will Survive VG+ VG $2.00
Ray Martin The Sound Of Sight $3.00
Ray Noble and his Orchestra Happy Anniversary $1.00
Ray Price And His The Port Jackson Jazz Band Jazz Classics Vol. 1 $2.00
Relativity Relativity VG VG $1.20
Richard Strauss, Antal Dorati, Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra Two Tone Poems - Don Juan, Death And Transfiguration $10.00
Richard Wagner Toscanini Conducts Wagner $5.00
Richard Wagner - Eileen Farrell, Boston Symphony Orchestra, Charles Munch Brunnhilde's Immolation / Tristan And Isolde: Prelude And Liebestod $8.00
Robert Casadesus Robert Casadesus Plays Sonatas by Chopin Mozart & Haydn $1.00
Robert Hall Collins, Ruth Barrett Phelps The Sacred Ministry Of Song $1.00
Robert Schumann / Elisabeth Schwarzkopf - Geoffrey Parsons Frauenliebe Und Leben, Op. 42 / Liederkreis, Op. 39 (Eichendorff) $1.00
Robert Shaw, The Robert Shaw Chorale Christmas Hymns And Carols Volume 1 $1.00
Roland Kirk Blacknuss G+ G+ $3.00
Roland Kirk Bright Moments G+ VG $6.00
Rossington Collins Band Anytime, Anyplace, Anywhere $2.00
Roxy Music Manifesto $5.00
Roxy Music Flesh + Blood VG VG $2.50
Rubber Rodeo Scenic Views VG VG $1.00
Ruth Welcome Sentimental Zither $1.00
Sally Ann Howes, Terry Carter And Brock Peters Kwamina (Original Broadway Cast) $1.00
Sarah Vaughan After Hours With Sarah Vaughan G+ G $2.50
Seals & Crofts Year Of Sunday $2.00
Seawind Seawind VG VG $1.00
Sergei Vasilyevich Rachmaninoff Piano-Concerto No. 2 In C Minor â€¢ 6 Preludes $1.00
Sergei Vasilyevich Rachmaninoff Piano-Concerto No. 2 In C Minor Op. 18 $1.00
Shadowfax We Used To Laugh â€¢ The Firewalker VG+ VG $1.00
Sigmund Romberg The Student Prince $2.00
Sir Thomas Beecham, The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra / Richard Strauss Ein Heldenleben (A Hero's Life) $2.00
Skyline Late To Work VG VG $1.00
Spooky Tooth The Mirror $5.00
Steve Goodman Somebody Else's Troubles G+ G+ $1.10
Steve Khan Arrows VG+ VG $1.00
Steve Winwood Winwood VG VG $1.50
Steven Halpern Natural Light VG+ VG+ $2.50
Stusick Harp And Instrumental Trio The Stusick Sisters With Mrs. Stanley S. Stusick Harp & Instrumental Trio Autographed $1.00
Susanna Mildonian Recital NÂ° 1 $1.00
Susanna Mildonian Recital NÂ° 2 $1.00
Ten Years After Watt $8.00
The Beatles Can't Buy Me Love 7" Single (Australian) $7.00
The Beatles I Should Have Known Better 7" Single (Australian) $7.00
The Don Burrows Quartet At The Sydney Opera House VG G+ $3.00
The Gardners Folksongs Far & Near VG VG $1.25
The Grass Roots Golden Grass: Their Greatest Hits $3.00
The James Last Band Trumpet Ã€ Gogo $1.00
The Melachrino Strings More Music For Dining $1.00
The Melachrino Strings Moods In Music: Music For Reading G G $0.70
The Monkees I Wanna Be Free / You Just May Be The One 7" Single $6.00
The Monkees The Monkees Volume 1 7" EP $20.00
The Monkees She 7" EP $10.00
The Monkees Cuddly Toy 7" EP $12.00
The Monkees A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You/The Girl I Knew Somewhere 7" $8.00
The Monkees Valleri 7" Single $8.00
The Righteous Brothers The Best Of $2.00
The Robert Shaw Chorale A Mighty Fortress $3.00
The Section Fork It Over G+ G+ $1.25
The Seekers Georgy Girl $2.00
The Stephane Caillat Vocal Quartet The Ronsard Circle $1.00
The Stompers One Heart For Sale VG+ VG $1.25
The Weavers The Best Of The Weavers VG VG $1.00
Three 6 Mafia Presents Project Pat Chickenhead $3.00
Tommy Dorsey And His Orchestra This Is Tommy Dorsey $2.00
Tommy Dorsey And His Orchestra, Frank Sinatra I'll See You In My Dreams $2.00
Tony Bennett Just One Of Those Things VG VG $1.00
Unknown Artist Flick Themes '72 $1.50
Unknown Artist Sound Effects Volume 1 $3.00
Various This Is The Era Of Memorable Song Hits: The Decade Of The 30s $1.00
Various Windham Hill Records Sampler '81 $1.00
Various Windham Hill Records Sampler '81 $1.00
Various Windham Hill Records Sampler '82 $1.00
Various Windham Hill Records Sampler '82 $1.00
Various Your Hit Parade - 1951 $1.00
Various Hello Dolly! (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack Album) $2.00
Various The Best Disco Album In The World $2.00
Various Favorite Themes From Masterpiece Theatre $2.00
Various Something Festive $3.00
Various Admiral Stereophonic Demonstration Record $5.00
Various A Collector's Sondheim $8.00
Various Music For The Jet Set $1.00
Various Russian Folk Dances of the Moiseyev Dance Company $1.00
Various Philharmonic Family Library Of Great Music Album 1 missing outermost sleeve $1.00
Various Nashville's Greatest Instrumentalists Volume II $1.00
Vladimir Horowitz Sonata In B-Flat Minor (Piano Music Of Chopin And Liszt) $1.00

Questions about Hawks experience at State Farm Arena

Red Roof Inn offering free lodging for HCW/ first responders

https://www.redroof.com/deals/national-deals/room-in-your-heart
I thought this information could help those who want to use protective distancing from their loved ones.
stay safe! ❤️
Room in Your Heart: Opening Doors to First Responders
Red Roof®, the leader in upscale economy lodging, is giving back to our country’s first responders—dedicated nurses, doctors, firefighters, police and emergency medical providers—who are fighting tirelessly to combat COVID-19. Many of these essential workers on the frontlines need a place to self-quarantine away from their homes and families to protect their loved ones.
From April 3 – May 31, Red Roof is donating a limited number of available rooms to these brave heroes, giving them a place to sleep and stay in between shifts at participating locations across the country.
Many Red Roof locations are exterior corridor hotels where separate hotel room doors open to the outside of the building instead of an interior hallway. After check-in, guests can drive to their room instead of walking through the building, reducing contact with interior touchpoints. Rooms have free Wi-Fi, flat-screen TVs, a workstation and a communication package that includes free local and long-distance calls as well as free in-room coffee (in most rooms). One well-behaved domestic pet—cat or dog—is always welcome to stay at no charge.
Call a participating hotel directly to book your stay.
*Each guest must provide valid medical, firefighter, or police identification. Offer does not apply to guests staying under a current government contract and all rooms are subject to availability. Pet accommodations policy may vary at some Home Towne Studios by Red Roof locations.
RED ROOF INN MONTGOMERY - MIDTOWN 2625 Zelda Road Montgomery, AL 36107 HOMETOWNE STUDIOS PHOENIX - WEST 4861 W. 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HOMETOWNE STUDIOS DALLAS - MESQUITE 2544 US Highway 67 Mesquite, TX 75150
HOMETOWNE STUDIOS HOUSTON - WEST OAKS 2130 Highway 6 Houston, TX 77077
RED ROOF INN LAREDO 1006 West Calton Road Laredo, TX 78041
RED ROOF PLUS+ AUSTIN SOUTH 4701 South I-35 Austin, TX 78744
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RED ROOF INN CHARLESTON - KANAWHA CITY, WV 100 Trueman Circle Charleston, WV 25304
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RED ROOF INN FAIRMONT 42 Spencer Drive White Hall, WV 26554 US

Nazwy Stanów i Miast w USA / Names of states and cities in the USA

Wrestling Observer Rewind ★ Nov. 10, 1997

Going through old issues of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter and posting highlights in my own words. For anyone interested, I highly recommend signing up for the actual site at f4wonline and checking out the full archives.
PREVIOUS YEARS ARCHIVE: 1991 • 1992 • 1993 • 1994 • 1995 • 1996


1-6-1997	1-13-1997	1-20-1997	1-27-1997
2-3-1997	2-10-1997	2-17-1997	2-24-1997
3-3-1997	3-10-1997	3-17-1997	3-24-1997
3-31-1997	4-7-1997	4-14-1997	4-21-1997
4-28-1997	5-5-1997	5-12-1997	5-19-1997
5-26-1997	6-2-1997	6-9-1997	6-16-1997
6-23-1997	6-30-1997	7-7-1997	7-14-1997
7-21-1997	7-28-1997	8-4-1997	8-11-1997
8-18-1997	8-25-1997	9-1-1997	9-8-1997
9-15-1997	9-22-1997	9-29-1997	10-6-1997
10-13-1997	10-20-1997	10-27-1997	11-3-1997

Bret Hart officially gave notice to WWF this week that he's leaving and has agreed to a 2-year deal with WCW. Hart has reportedly been unhappy with WWF's new, more crude direction and that, more than money, is reportedly why he chose to leave, but of course, money played a big part also. But Hart is reportedly so embarrassed by the current WWF direction that he doesn't even let his children watch the show and of course has been upset at having to deal with Shawn Michaels. Both Hart and WWF tried to keep the story under wraps until after Survivor Series but that's impossible these days. Once the story leaked, WWF released a statement admitting that they were giving Hart the opportunity to explore other options. On Nitro, Eric Bischoff teased that he would have a big announcement next week, which would be Hart coming to join the NWO (which would probably be turned into a storyline with him deciding if he's with WCW or NWO). For now, Bret is scheduled to work all his WWF booked events through the end of November and then one final PPV show in December. Hart and Bischoff have reportedly been negotiating for about 6 weeks, and very few people knew. They met in person 3 weeks ago and at that point, they were pretty sure Bret was coming to WCW but he didn't make the final decision until this weekend. During his WWF negotiations last year, Hart got Vince to agree to a clause in his 20-year contract that allows him to quit with 30 days notice and another clause that gives him creative control over his character during those final 30 days.
All that is known about Hart's WCW deal is that it's similar to the contract he turned down last year, although slightly less money because Hart insisted on working fewer dates (around 125-140 per year) due to a bad knee that never really healed last year and a wrist injury that he's long needed surgery on. It also has the same deals with Hart getting movie roles for Turner. Bret will likely be used to help prop up the new Thursday TBS show as well as help WCW grow in Canada. Dave recaps the last year, saying Bret quickly became unhappy in WWF after signing his new deal, and pretty much came up with his own angle for the double-turn with Steve Austin and with forming the Hart Foundation. He also has well-known heat with Shawn Michaels dating back to last year but got much more heated this year with Shawn's "Sunny days" comment followed by a legit backstage fight that led to Shawn walking out of the company. Neither man was punished for the fight and in fact, WWF basically begged Shawn to return. Eventually they agreed to co-exist and leave personal lives and families out of their promos, but Shawn then did an interview talking about Stu Hart. Shawn later apologized for that one, saying he got carried away in a promo. Shawn has been on a self-destructive path the last year and his immaturity and antics on TV are seemingly encouraged by Vince McMahon, which upset Bret. And the final straw appears to be Vince deciding that Bret will drop the title to Shawn at Survivor Series.
There's been speculation that Vince McMahon actually wants Bret to leave because he doesn't want to honor the 20-year contract that Bret has because he has buyer's remorse. McMahon fought hard to keep Bret from WCW last year and many think he was only thinking in the short-term when he made the deal. Long-term, it's a very expensive contract that doesn't make good economic sense for WWF which has led to people questioning whether or not Vince is actively trying to push Bret to leave. Asking him to drop the title to Shawn was sure to upset him and Vince knew it. Dave says no one knows exactly what will happen in Montreal at the PPV. Most people will expect Bret to drop the title, but they may try to swerve fans and do it at another time. But either way, Bret will have to drop the belt sometime very soon. As for guys like Owen Hart and Davey Boy Smith, they're both locked into 5 year contracts and it doesn't look like any of this will affect their status with the company.
And on a final note, just a few days ago, Bret Hart wrote a column in the Calgary Sun paper which is designed as a "letter" to Shawn Michaels that was meant to seem like a shoot in order to promote the Survivor Series match. But knowing what we know now, it takes on a whole new meaning (I'm sure Bret meant every word of this):

"Shawn Michaels, you are a disgrace to professional wrestling. It amazes me that there was a time I actually thought you'd be the guy who could come up behind me and carry the ball when my time comes to retire. Now when you're behind me, I have to make sure I don't bend over. I am a second generation wrestler. Like a lot of second generation wrestlers, I've paid my dues. The way you are degrading the business makes me sick and breaks my heart. That's not what Heartbreak Kid was supposed to mean. I told you, and Vince told you, to leave our families out of this. So you got on RAW and said that my father is dead. This time you're so far over the line that there's no coming back. Every so often, after you shoot off your mouth, you come to me backstage with a lame apology and a limp handshake. "Oh Bret, my mouth always gets me in trouble when I get goin' out there. You know I didn't mean nothin' by it."
Don't bother this time, I'm not buying it. I would not embarrass my father--who is not only very much alive but is still tougher today at 83 and more of a man than you will ever be--as you have embarrassed your father with your degenerate behavior. How humiliating for your poor mother to have to explain your lewd gestures to her friends. You don't respect anybody, do you? What does Jose Lothario think of how you've made pornography out of what he taught you? Shawn Michaels, you are nothing more than a whore for this business.
You called me a paper champion because it bothers you that my contract is worth more than you and the whole Degeneration X put together. You said I wrestle because I need the money, but you wrestle because this business needs you. You are a festering cancerous tumor in this business. After Wrestlemania XII, I went home for a while to give you the chance to become "the man" because as long as I'm around you'll never be "the man." You were so bad at being "the man" that the WWF and WCW had the biggest bidding war in wrestling history to get me to come back. You'd have the World championship belt. But you don't. What do you have, besides a big mouth and a bad attitude?
Shawn Michaels, you said that beating the Undertaker makes you an icon. Not taking anything away from 'Taker, but you weren't the first guy to beat him, you just did it too late. You said you're the only icon that can still go, not like the fossils. You're so beat up from taking completely overdone bumps like a Mexican jumping bean that you can't even work a full schedule like the older guys. You only wrestle about once a month and you're proud of that? Then people who think they know more about this business than they actually do, write about what a hard worker you are. Anyone can work hard once a month. You've barebacked your way to main event matches and they give you the best guys in the business to make you look good.
So you and your boyfriend, Hunter, think I'm too old. Hunter said he's bigger than me in more ways than one, and then you pointed at Hunter's crotch and said he could put an eye out with that thing. Thanks for admitting that you know what Hunter has in his pants. So how come I have four kids and all you two have is each other? I'm not the one shooting blanks. By the way, you both looked very comfortable eating bananas together on Raw. Lots of parents tell me they won't let their kids watch the shows anymore because of you and they don't watch either because you're such an asshole. People are shutting the show off because of you! It took so long to make wrestling into family entertainment. Thanks for setting the business back 50 years! You are the one who is confusing expansion and destruction, not me. You, Shawn, are the destruction of this business. You make me sick. You said you're the best sports entertainer in the world. Don't even think about saying you're a wrestler. What I do is an art form and what you do is...what do you do, anyway, cause it's not pro wrestling anymore?
You called the WWF world championship a "tin title" but you're only saying that because you don't have the belt. When you did have it, you treated it like garbage and then threw it away! So now you want to try to win the title at Survivor Series? You'd better reconsider that because when I get my hands on you it's going to make the beating I gave you in the locker room last June look like a warm up. After that little scuffle, you went running to Vince, complaining that the work conditions in the WWF are unsafe. The only thing unsafe about the working conditions in the WWF is you, Shawn. You've gotten in the ring so "pilled up" lately that you can't even talk straight on TV. You'd better shake the cob webs free before you get in the ring with me at SS. This business has been my mistress for my whole life and I love her. You are raping her and taking her dignity away. Don't count on my reputation for professionalism saving your ass at SS. You're the one who threw the rule book out the window. The 17 stitches you got at Hell in the Cell are nothing compared to what's coming at Misery in Montreal."

Ric Flair has also agreed to re-sign with WCW which is a win for them because WWF was very interested and Flair had strongly considered it for awhile. But he'll be staying with WCW.
The official cause of death for Brian Pillman has been released and the verdict is heart attack due to natural causes. Reportedly, after a month of tests, the coroner was stumped for a cause of the heart attack, although his heart did show an unusual amount of damage for someone his age. It could be hereditary or due to outside factors such as cocaine or steroids, both of which it's no secret that Pillman had used and abused during his career. Toxicology results didn't show any drugs in amounts that could have killed him. He had painkillers in his system but not at dangerous levels. No steroids or illegal drugs were found in his system, nor any alcohol. He had blood pressure medication in his system, which he didn't have a prescription for but again not at a dangerous amount. On a WCW internet radio show a couple of weeks ago, Gene Okerlund claimed to have an inside scoop with sources with the police in MN that cocaine was the cause of death, which got rumors going. But when toxicology showed no cocaine in his system, this naturally led to a ton of heat on Okerlund and upset a lot of people.
Gorilla Monsoon's condition improved over the weekend but he's still hospitalized and listed in serious condition. Monsoon was on a respirator and receiving kidney dialysis for most of the last week. Doctors are hoping to perform a bypass surgery on his heart soon, but it no longer looks as though he needs a transplant for now. Monsoon had been a top heel back in the day and was part owner of Capital Sports (parent company of the old WWWF) before selling his share of the company to Vince McMahon Jr. in 1982. Ever since then, he's remained with the company as an announcer, figurehead authority figure, and backstage office roles as well as giving time cues at TV tapings from the other side of the curtain.
NJPW "only" drew around 40,000 to their latest stadium show in the Fukuoka Dome, which is the smallest crowd ever for a NJPW stadium show. The number disappointed many, and it seems to be a reality check about the long-term future of NJPW, which has been the most successful promotion in the world for the last few years, but is starting to see the peak fading. Right now, they're being carried by the final retirement shows of Riki Choshu which are doing big business, but after he retires on Jan. 4th, NJPW doesn't really have anything exciting on the horizon for 1998, which has some in the company worried.
Two incidents with fans at wrestling shows made news this week and led to near riots. The first was at a Promo Azteca show in Tijuana. A bunch of wrestlers were in the ring having a big post-match brawl. Among them were Rey Misterio Jr., Psicosis, Konnan, and others when a fan hit the ring and did a dropkick on Misterio. Then another fan ran in and hit Mistero with a chair, but Misterio got the chair away from the fan. At this point, fans in the crowd all started throwing chairs at the ring and, sensing a riot about to break out, others in the crowd panicked and began running. All in all, it was a scary situation but nobody was hurt. For what it's worth, WCW doesn't want Misterio wrestling in Mexico anymore because they don't want him to get hurt, especially at a non-WCW show.
The other incident took place in (where else?)....ECW at a show in Plymouth, PA. This situation was different. According to several witnesses, a small group of fans showed up, all big tough looking guys, and they were there looking for trouble right from the beginning. They were harassing the wrestlers all night from the front row and during the first match, security came and told them to stop leaning over the rails and stop spitting at wrestlers, but the security guard was shouted down by the group. Why they weren't removed then and there, no one knows. The ECW wrestlers mostly tried to avoid wrestling near them. But then Axl Rotten, Balls Mahoney, John Kronus and (who else?) New Jack came to the ring for a match. And then trouble began. When Balls Mahoney got too close, 2 of the fans started punching him. Mahoney turned around and started throwing wild punches back and then the ECW locker room emptied as everyone ran out to join the brawl. "Reports are the Dudleys were going through the crowd like buzzsaws" and it took nearly 20 minutes to bring order back to the show. After it was over, several hundred fans were outside the building trying to escape the near-riot. Several fans were injured, although none seriously. 40 police officers, some in riot gear, and even a police dog showed up to the scene. The story made all the local news outlets. Balls Mahoney and New Jack were brought to the police station for questioning. The 2 fans who threw the initial punches were arrested and charged with assault, disorderly conduct, and harassment. New Jack surprisingly didn't do much during the fight because as soon as it started to break out, Paul Heyman ran out and pulled New Jack away from it because given the Mass Transit legal situation, Heyman didn't want him getting into more legal trouble that could reflect on the company.
Speaking of fans getting involved, WWF ran an angle on Raw with a "fan" getting into the ring who then started doing martial arts and kicking people's asses. He is former Stampede wrestler Steve Blackman and he's expected to officially debut in his first match at Survivor Series, replacing The Patriot on Team USA.

WATCH: Steve Blackman's WWF debut

Dave reviews a recent FMW show and says the show-stealer was Masato Tanaka vs. The Gladiator (Mike Awesome) and says usually they're both decent workers at best but they really clicked in this match. (Indeed they did. Those 2 had the best chemistry together and they went on to have legendary matches against each other in ECW and even revived the feud years later at the first WWECW One Night Stand PPV). Anyway, this FMW match even has their famous powerbomb-outside-the-ring spot at about the 18 minute mark.

WATCH: Masato Tanaka vs. The Gladiator (FMW)

The Dallas Sportatorium got a new lease on life after reports came out that it would be torn down. Enough die-hard wrestling fans who still attend the occasional indie show there made enough noise that they extended the lease on the building and it won't be torn down for now.
USWA is dead, but Jerry Lawler had a contract to run weekly shows at a casino in Mississippi, so he's continuing to run indie shows there each week so as to not to violate the contract. In Louisville, Ian Rotten's IWA is trying to take over the TV deal and arena dates that USWA had. And Bert Prentice's Music City Wrestling is trying to take over the Memphis and Nashville deals and they'll be running their first show in Memphis next week on the usual USWA date at the same building.
A few weeks ago, Billy Jack Haynes emerged from hiding (reportedly because he had some bad gambling debts and was kinda on the run) and tried to make amends with people he had screwed over. He admitted having a gambling problem but said it was all behind him now. He borrowed some money from a few people to get his life back in order.....but has instead disappeared again after borrowing the money.
The rap group Insane Clown Posse will be wrestling at a show called Stranglemania Live in Detroit next month. The show will also feature a women's thumbtack death match. (The video below is part one. Part 2, 3, 4, etc. should start automatically after you finish the previous one).

WATCH: Stranglemania Live 1997 - Pt. 1

ECW held a show in Stamford, CT on Halloween that sounds like it was a lot of fun. A lot of current ECW stars who used to work in WWF used their old WWF gimmicks since it was Halloween. Al Snow came out as Avatar, Justin Credible worked as Aldo Montoya, Jerry Lynn worked as Mr. J.L., Shane Douglas did his Dean Douglas gimmick and Chris Candido came out as Skip. Also on the show, Rob Van Dam dressed as Sabu. The BWO guys (Blue Meanie and Super Nova) wrestled as Big Daddy Fool and the Heartburn Kid, coming out to Shawn Michaels' music. Finally, Tommy Dreamer won a flag match and proclaimed Stamford as ECW country (no free video anywhere but apparently you can pay to watch it here on Highspots).

LINK: ECW Halloween Hell 97

Tickets for Sting vs. Hogan at Starrcade go on sale this week and it's almost certainly going to break every record in WCW history. The Halloween Havoc show last month did a big PPV buyrate also. Dave says a lot of people have talked about how terrible the Hogan/Piper "age in the cage" match was, and they're right, it was awful. But the job of the top stars is to sell tickets and when it comes to that, Hogan is still #1 in WCW, no matter how bad the match was. Even Hogan's new movie Assault on Devil's Island did a 4.2 rating, making it one of the most-watch made-for-TV movies ever on cable and they may be turning the movie into an ongoing TV series.
Dave thinks the political situation in WCW will be interesting in 1998. All of the top stars (Hogan, Sting, Flair, Piper, Savage, Hall, Nash, and soon, Bret Hart) will be under the same roof and all of them have or will have some measure of creative control in their contracts which is sure to lead to some problems. With WWF losing Bret Hart, that frees up a lot of money so don't be surprised to see some of those guys maybe looking to go back to WWF if things get too crowded at the top.
Raven cut a promo on Nitro and mentioned sitting next to a girl named Trisa Hayes in elementary school. That's an inside reference because Trisa Hayes is actually the real name of ECW's Beulah McGillicutty.
Perry Saturn won the TV title on Nitro, and because his knee is still not fully healed, he wrestled a totally different style, sorta similar to Taz with lots of suplexes and submissions. Taz got wind of this and was reportedly upset that Saturn was stealing his gimmick but Dave says they're different enough that he wouldn't really consider it the same.
WCW Injury Report: Bill Goldberg has a pulled groin and will miss a few shows. Syxx had an MRI on his neck and the results weren't good, as he had more damage than originally thought. He'll be out for awhile, no word how long. DDP had blood in his urine recently but didn't miss any matches. Marcus Bagwell will be out for a few weeks after having the meniscus in his knee removed. And even Kimberly Page knocked heads with another Nitro girl during a mistimed routine and was banged up.
Southern California indie wrestler Christopher Daniels is expected to get a WCW tryout soon.
WCW filed a lawsuit against WWF over them using the name Canadian Stampede for its PPV back in July because they claimed it was too similar to WCW's Spring Stampede PPV name. The case was settled out of court, but not for money. Part of the agreement is WWF wouldn't use the name Canadian Stampede in the future.
DDP raised about $1,000 for Brian Pillman's family through internet donations.
Steve Austin has been working 8-man tag matches on house shows and doing very little in the ring. Doctors are still giving him bad diagnosis but its hard for someone to stop and give up their career when they're at their peak like Austin is now (we're not even close to Austin's peak yet).
Doctors have told The Patriot he should retire due to his tricep tear because it seems to be a chronic problem. He's expected to get surgery and if he decides to return, it'll be in 3-6 months (he didn't return).

TOMORROW: The Montreal Screwjob.

[Contest] Trivia Day 8. Saturday May 25th, 2019

Wrestling Observer Rewind ★ Dec. 9, 1996


1-2-1996	1-6-1996	1-15-1996	1-22-1996
1-29-1996	2-5-1996	2-12-1996	2-19-1996
2-26-1996	3-4-1996	3-11-1996	3-18-1996
3-25-1996	4-2-1996	4-8-1996	4-15-1996
4-22-1996	4-29-1996	5-6-1996	5-13-1996
5-20-1996	5-27-1996	6-3-1996	6-10-1996
6-17-1996	6-24-1996	7-1-1996	7-8-1996
7-15-1996	7-22-1996	7-29-1996	8-5-1996
8-14-1996	8-19-1996	8-26-1996	9-2-1996
9-9-1996	9-16-1996	9-23-1996	9-30-1996
10-7-1996	10-14-1996	10-21-1996	10-28-1996
11-4-1996	11-11-1996	11-18-1996	11-25-1996
12-2-1996

Fighting TV Samurai, the first ever 24-hour pro wrestling and martial arts TV network, debuted in Japan this week with a live show put together by Antonio Inoki. It's a premium channel that customers pay for as part of their satellite package. Only 3,000 homes had signed up for it by launch time which is disastrous for the new network, but Dave points out that ESPN and CNN lost millions of dollars for years before they really took off to where they are today. Whether Samurai has the financial backing to lose money like that for the first years is the big question. But they seem to be aware that it will be an uphill climb, as financial backers have been saying they expect it to be around 2005 or so before the channel starts to pay off. Among the content on the channel are old episodes of AJPW and NJPW, live events from WAR, Tokyo Pro, Big Japan, WCW's international shows, Promo Azteca, and some old golden age of American wrestling shows. Plus a weekly sports talk show hosted by Inoki, a SportsCenter-type nightly show covering all the wrestling news in Japan, and more. Plus they have the entire 300-episode run of Tiger Mask cartoons. Plus lots of karate, kickboxing, and martial arts events. They plan to have 8 hours of programming per day that will repeat 3x daily. The only notable note from the live Inoki show that aired at the debut is that Willie Williams indeed challenged Inoki to a match for the Jan. 4th Tokyo Dome show (as covered in the last issue) so that match will happen (turns out that channel still exists today, so they did indeed survive. I have no idea if it's still a wrestling/MMA channel or not though).
There's been a lot of random media coverage about pro wrestling this week. An article in TV Guide was critical of Milton Bradley and Nintendo for their sponsorship of Raw and Nitro. The article called both shows "the creepiest, most unnerving, least scientifically explainable, most downright bizarre (television) programming of all." The author wrote negatively about the Pillman/Austin gun angle and took some shots at Nitro as well. The article concluded by saying the 2 shows "supply the most sadistic, stomach-turning, gross, psychologically discombobulating programming on television today." The Feb. 97 issue of Muscle Mag has an article about bodybuilder Achim Albrecht and weightlifter Mark Henry joining the WWF and talks about others in that industry who have joined pro wrestling.
EMLL announced they will be doing a tour of Japan in February. They'll be only the 2nd foreign promotion to try and run a tour of Japan on its own (WWF did one in 1994 that flopped). Due to the El Hijo del Santo heel turn, EMLL is currently the hottest promotion in Mexico. AAA was left in shambles by all of its best workers jumping to Promo Azteca and they're surviving on big names from the past to carry them right now. As for Promo Azteca, they have great workers, but the few shows they've held so far have been lackluster.
Speaking of the Santo heel turn, the heat for it has been so insane that police have been having to keep fans from rushing the ring to attack him. In an interesting note, Santo is only working heel at the major arena in Mexico City right now, but is still working babyface at other shows throughout the country.
La Parka debuted for Promo Azteca and did an interview saying he left AAA because they didn't take care of the wrestlers as human beings and said he had to miss shows due to personal reasons and AAA didn't work with him on those issues. He said he didn't leave over money. Dave disagrees, saying the "personal reasons" he missed AAA shows was because he chose to work WCW shows on those dates instead because they paid more, so when it comes down to it, he definitely left over money.
Vampiro will no longer be going to Promo Azteca to team with Konnan, saying that he is afraid it will damage his reputation in Mexico after all the things Antonio Pena has said about him. Also, Vampiro is apparently mad at Konnan for getting tattoos on his arm because Vampiro feels that is copying his gimmick or something. Umm, sure.
Antonio Pena is using his WWF deal to try to get big stars to sign deals with AAA, promising them he can get them work in WWF if they join him. He's gone after El Hijo del Santo, Vampiro, and Lizmark, among others. The magazine Super Luchas, which Pena puts out, has listed almost every major name in AAA as working the Royal Rumble PPV.
Hiroshi Hase debuted in All Japan this week, cutting a promo. He said he'd always wanted to work in AJPW (having spent his entire career up until now in NJPW). He made no mention of New Japan and NJPW has never publicly acknowledged that he's left the company.
Sabu has been working in All Japan and to the surprise of many, he has been allowed to do all of his usual crazy table and chair spots. That style goes completely against the usually serious AJPW style and some of the other wrestlers have complained about it. But Giant Baba's opinion is basically that Sabu is a small, below average worker otherwise, so if you're going to use Sabu, you may as well let him do his gimmick because otherwise, what use is he?
Atsushi Onita cut a promo at an FMW show, saying that he had only told one lie in his life and that was that he would never wrestle again. He asked the fans to forgive him and asked if they had ever lied before too. It didn't work. The crowd booed him and chanted that he was a liar. Japan takes their retirement stipulations seriously and they're upset that Onita is going back on his word. Onita is scheduled to make his return to the ring next week after retiring over a year ago. The arena holds 4,000 and is already sold out.
Nude photos of Japanese women wrestlers Manami Toyota and Chikako Shiratori have been released in the past few days. No word if Brad Maddox or Xavier Woods was involved.
Last week's USWA show drew another record-low crowd, with some saying it was as low as 150 people. But this week's show was back up to around 600 with Jerry Lawler's first match back as a babyface. Memphis shows have been losing money for awhile but the Louisville and Nashville shows were carrying the company. But business in those cities is down now too. They're trying to start running more shows at the casinos in Tunica, MS since they get paid a guaranteed amount no matter the attendance. They're also considering moving the weekly Memphis shows back to Wednesday nights, so that Lawler can be there every week. Right now, most of the wrestlers in USWA are making the minimum $40 per show and work other jobs outside of wrestling to pay their bills.
There was more this week on the story of the 17-year-old kid who got bladed by New Jack at an ECW show last week. People there live were saying it was the most blood they'd ever seen in a wrestling match. It has become a major story since the kid was underage. After the incident, New Jack got on the mic and said he "didn't care if the motherfucker bled to death." Most people thought it was in character, but backstage, with no fans around, New Jack was said to be laughing about it which led a lot of people to saying he should be fired. New Jack was fired once before, for attacking another wrestler backstage, but Heyman eventually brought him back, saying that if he made one mistake, he'd be gone. A few weeks later, New Jack ended up going to jail for awhile, which seems like it should be the "one mistake" but Heyman didn't fire him. Then he had a fight with Brian Pillman, which also didn't lead to him being fired. A few weeks ago, New Jack got into a fight with a fan, but Heyman said the fan hit him first and called him the N-word, but others have disputed that and Heyman seems to have buried any footage of the incident. Point being, The Gangstas are one of ECW's most popular acts and Heyman has found a million excuses to avoid firing New Jack when he obviously has deserved it. As for this incident, there have been accusations that New Jack cut the kid that bad on purpose but Dave hasn't seen the video of it yet. Heyman says the kid told him he was 19 and that he was trained by Killer Kowalski (neither of which is true) but the kid's father says everyone knew he was 17. Also, the police nearly arrested the kid's father for child abuse later that night because they didn't believe a cut that deep could come from a wrestling match and thought the father had abused him. For now, the family has no plans to take any legal action and they actually seem to be enjoying their 15 minutes of fame.
Here's the only known footage of the Mass Transit Incident. It's shit quality but still pretty graphic, so....be warned. The cutting is at about 3:08.

WATCH: The Mass Transit Incident

ECW is planning to release Blue World Order t-shirts because the group has gotten over so big.
ECW is also planning to come out with those foam hand merch gimmicks that say EC F'n W on it and has a middle finger pointing up. Expect those to get confiscated at every WWF and WCW show that people will inevitably bring them to.
Big Dick Dudley is currently in jail for probation violation. No word why exactly.
Paul Heyman is looking at either March 2nd or March 30th as possible dates for the first ECW PPV. The 30th would be Easter Sunday but Dave doesn't think it will hurt the buyrate any for them to run a show on that date.
On Nitro, Chris Benoit and Steve Regal had an insanely stiff match against each other, which led to Regal getting busted open early in the match. The camera pulled away so as not to show the blood. So the entire match was only shown from one stationary camera a mile away from the ring.

WATCH: Chris Benoit vs. Steven Regal - WCW Nitro

Japanese wrestler Yuji Nagata is scheduled to work all of 1997 in WCW and Dave says he's an incredible worker, which means WCW won't push him at all.
Harlem Heat is reportedly negotiating with the WWF.
The WCW hotline talked about former ECW valet Kimona Wanalaya possibly coming in to WCW soon. They also mentioned Raven coming in, but Dave says that was a 100% work. He says Gene Okerlund needed a name to use because the lie about wrestlers jumping promotions usually does good business on the hotline and they needed a boost since the hotline numbers have been down lately. So he made up the story and someone suggested he use Raven (considering Raven would indeed be in WCW about 6 months later, I think Dave was probably wrong about this one).
Marcus Bagwell has a role in a movie called Day of the Warrior and apparently it's so bad that it makes Hogan's movies look like Masterpiece Theater. Bagwell plays "The Supreme Warrior" in a loin cloth and face paint and he has a fight scene with a Penthouse Pet who he headbutts in the breast and get knocked out by it. (Here's the movie. Enjoy. Heads up if you're watching at work though, lots of nudity throughout, even in the opening credits. And Bagwell basically looks like Tatanka. It's so laughably, terribly low-budget bad.)

WATCH: Day of the Warrior (full movie)

Eric Bischoff was interviewed in a South Carolina newspaper and talked about the time Vince McMahon interviewed him for an announcing job in 1990 and being told McMahon didn't remember him. "In June of 1990 I was down there for an interview and audition and talked to Vince for probably half an hour. If he doesn't remember it, perhaps he was engaged in some of his admitted chemical activity during that time. But I was there. He was there....The nonsense and perception of reality that Vince McMahon, a guy who has admitted using steroids to try to beef up what was otherwise a scrawny, frail little individual, I think when he wakes up in the morning, he looks in the mirror and still sees that 80-pound birdface punk that nobody wanted to play with, and he has to deal with that every day. And the way he's trying to deal with is trying to create this perception. And I just hope people are smart enough to see through this nonsense and deal with reality."
WWF is taping shows from London this week and told a story about Sid and Bret Hart having a brawl at the hotel after one of the shows, which is obviously playing off the real life story of the Sid/Arn Anderson brawl in England a couple of years ago.
When Ahmed Johnson returns, they plan to put him against Goldust so Ahmed can get a few wins under his belt. They're pretty much phasing out the Goldust character now (21 years later, Goldust is still killing it on Raw and no one has seen Ahmed Johnson since he played Suge Knight in an MC Hammer movie for VH1 16 years ago).
Achim Albrecht made his debut on the latest house show tour, using the name Brakus. He wrestled against Tom Prichard (his trainer) 3 nights in a row and reports are that he was absolutely huge. Prichard sold well for him but the crowd didn't get into it and he didn't seem to get over.
There's a good chance Mil Mascaras will be in the Royal Rumble match, because apparently this show is being held in 1972 instead of 1997. Dave says Mascaras was one of the biggest draws in the world at one point, especially in that San Antonio region. But by the 80s, he meant nothing there, and means even less now.

TOMORROW: UFC Ultimate Ultimate 2 fallout (it takes up a big chunk of the issue so I had to give it a paragraph), Royal Rumble news, tons of ECW happenings, and more...

The Story of VIP man

On New Years night, my fiancee (26f) and I (25m) were at a Casino with her parents. Her dad had accumulated enough points to become a VIP and he was nice enough to let us go into the VIP lounge/bar area to eat at the buffet. While we were at the buffet, eating some lobster and shit, my fiancee's dad tells us that while he was ordering our drinks at the bar a guy noticed him paying with cash and came over and swiped his own rewards card. Apparently, this guy was some sort of super VIP and whomever he swiped his card for they were able to get unlimited free drinks at this bar. He said he did this because he hates people paying for drinks when he can give out free ones. Super nice right? So we take the free drinks from her dad (top shelf stuff BTW) and we continue eating. A few minutes later, VIP man comes over and starts talking to us. He is a nice guy and good conversationalist. He goes back to the bar while my fiancee and I finish our meal. Her dad has left to continue gambling and we are still working on those same free drinks. VIP man comes back over to our table and starts asking why we haven't finished our drinks, and then hands us some Jagerbombs. He then invites us over to the bar where his wife and friends are. We oblige him and go get more free liquor.
Now, some more info on VIP man. He is in his 50s. Short. Stocky. And the outfit he had on was a nice white dress shirt, a bow-tie (not tied great), and basketball shorts. This, as he told us, was his uniform and everyone knew him for it. Multiple times throughout the night he tried to convince other people to go back to their rooms and put on shorts. "C'mon Gary! Go back up to your room and put on some shorts like Ol' VIP man!!", VIP man would say. This was a very pro-shorts person. Kinda weird right? But also, kinda cool because shorts are comfy and this guy obviously doesn't care about social norms or fashion. Anyways, so this guy proceeds to give us nice, top shelf liquor for free and fun conversation, much of which was about himself. We come to learn that he is some sort of super rich guy, not that surprising when you know that he has spent enough money at this casino this year (~$150,000) that he can give out access to free drinks to whom he wants at any time. I never found out how he became rich, but from what I gathered he was in the business of taking businesses to market and making a shitload of money on it. At one point he boasted that he made more money than he could ever spend. So this caught my attention. He boasted that last year he made 2 million dollars. At this point my fiancee and I were thinking we got really lucky to meet this guy and that it was a great networking opportunity. He was an eccentric millionaire who loves to give people stuff. Even better, it’s a blast talking to this guy. He talked about everything to us. Gave us his whole life story, VIP man did.
Now, it was all going great until it wasn't. His "wife" was with him at the bar. I put wife in quotations because he made a point of saying that they weren't actually married and never would be, which I didn't think much of at the time. So, VIP man's "wife" and my fiancee got to talking. Now, it was just me and VIP man. One on one. Mano y mano. And the first thing he said to me was "you wanna see something cool?" What he showed me was in fact, not cool. VIP man gets out his phone and starts to talk to me about something called Fantasy Fest. Which is not a name of a festival that I would attend, but I have no reason to think anything negative of it yet. VIP man finds the Fantasy Fest photo album on his phone and shows it to me. This was the point that it all turned south. On his phone was an assortment of nudity the likes of which are only seen in Florida and nursing homes. It was picture after picture of wrinkled skin, fake tans, and sagginess. Pictures of skin that the sun and gravity had won the war against long ago. But VIP man didn't seem to notice or mind that what he was showing me was trauma inducing. Fantasy Fest, as I was forced to learn, is a festival in Florida where people walk around the streets in next to nothing. That is my best description, I couldn't really find a theme in what he was showing me beyond that everyone was scantily clad. He was showing me these women and men walking around with barely anything on and he was commenting on how attractive all these people were.
Now, a little fact about me, I am not one to interject my opinion on someone I don't know well. Especially not if they are confident. But God I wish that I would've done it that night.
Unfortunately, these pictures were not only of other people, but also of VIP man. I will not assault you with the details of what I saw of VIP man. Other than that he had given up his signature shorts and bow tie get up for a less restricting, more breathable tutu.
And that is all I have to say about that.
Later, I had steered him away from talking about Fantasy Fest and my fiancee had rejoined our conversation. VIP man continues to tell stories of his perverseness. All of these were told to us in a very interesting and fun way. This VIP man is a great conversationalist. He was able to tell us stuff about himself that if told in any other way would've been horribly uncomfortable, but he was a good story teller and we were drunk. So we had a good time, even through all the gross crap. It is nearing midnight and VIP man learns that we are living in Nashville,TN and tells us that he will be visiting Nashville in February. He asks for my number so we can meet up when he is there. Now, at this point, I have really only had one negative interaction with VIP man surrounded by many other fun and interesting ones. So, I weigh the pros and cons and ultimately decide that he has more pros and give him my number. Now, my fiancee and I want to go back out to the floor and experience the new year celebration with everyone there. So, we tell him this and we say our goodbyes. As my fiancee and I are walking, I go to the bathroom while she stops to show security her ID.
When I come out of the bathroom, my fiancee lets me know that as VIP man was walking by her at the security desk he, without breaking stride, smacked her butt and was now nowhere to be found. She was obviously annoyed with this, but she was not angry. She took pity on the guy because she thought he was sort of pathetic. But, as you can imagine, I am not happy about what VIP man has done to her, especially since he waited until I wasn't around to do it. If I would've seen him again I don't know what I would've done, but I never saw VIP man again that night.
Fast forward to now. I receive a text from VIP man. He is confirming with me the dates that he will be in Nashville and he wants me to go out with him and his wife. My fiancee does not really care whether I go party with this guy or not.
Do you think I should go honky tonkin with this man and forget what he did to my fiancee? Should I ignore him and never speak to him again? Should I confront him and ask for restitution?

Wealth Formula Episode 195: Wealth Secret #1: Know, Like and Trust!

Catch the full episode: https://www.wealthformula.com/podcast/195-wealth-secret-1-know-like-and-trust/
Buck: Welcome back to the show everyone. Today my guest on Wealth Formula Podcast is my very good friend and partner Tim McLeary from Western Wealth Capital. Tim has been involved with the financial services in real estate industries for 25 years before joining Western Wealth Capital. His resume is extensive including oversight of more than a billion dollars in assets at TD Bank Financial Group and that was of course before our current run at Western Wealth. Now he is Vice President of Investor relations at Western Wealth Capital and he is obviously you know the face that many of you who have been an Investor Club already have seen and met in person if you've come to our meetups in Phoenix in Houston and of course he'll be in the next one as well. Tim, welcome to Wealth Formula Podcast man.
Tim: Yeah thank you Buck.
Buck: So you know obviously you know we've been talking within investor club and you know pretty much every day with regards to properties that we're looking at etc, but it's great to finally have you on the program to kind of you know expose everybody who's not necessarily part of the investor club to what you guys are doing. So everyone you know obviously people in the investor club already know at least you through the webinars. They may not have seen your pretty mug like you can on the video version here, but tell us a little bit about your past and you know how you ultimately ended up from you know these positions where more traditional financial market into multifamily real-estate.
Tim: Well this is always a common theme and I've always worked in an environment dealing with or connecting with people and institutions anywhere from as you mentioned TD which is you know institutional money management business development leadership with the major chartered financial banks. So again the common denominator is the ability to connect with people and my last position from my last job you know I was pretty darn comfortable feet up you know not being challenged, golfing a couple times a week sometimes I would play these sound like their president real calm and actually wanna one of my good friends a gentleman I used to play a little hockey with in the past because that's what we do up here in the frozen tundra is play a lot of hockey, he was the CFO of actually a very large local developer and he had just joined this small little firm in Vancouver called Western Wealth Capital and at the time and I think this nuts he went from you know CFO of again one of the largest developers in Vancouver just real estate company called Western Wealth Capital and out of the blue he gave me a call and introduced me to the CEO of Western Wealth Capital, Janet LePage and that meeting I basically sat there and said I'll do whatever it takes to come and work with his organization. I just knew it was a rocket ship, she's an amazing lady and then I met David Steele the other co GP and that was two and a half years ago and I loved every day and I'm learning as we go as well too and it's been a phenomenal ride and I'm looking for the next 10 or 15 years.
Buck: So you know obviously you're smart guy and you're heavily involved with day-to-day operations and yet God you know really your pulse on every part of this business so when you look at it from that perspective and you know what's going on in the economy etc, why multifamily real estate right now?
Tim: Well you know multi family is kind of the darling play in that real estate asset class right now you know more and more people and groups are running to this asset class and there's you know a couple simple reasons you know one there's you know multifamily is a very low risk profile asset class you know you look at the stock market and the fluctuations you know I'm still a junkie I look three or four times a day to see what the Dow and Nasdaq are doing but they're basically up and down with the Dow and Nasdaq and you know the market that general market that really depends on I say it is moved from a fundamental market to an emotional driven market you know it depends on tweets from certain people then also you know market move one way or another you know where as you know multifamily is just it's boring it's a real boring asset class but again it's also something you can touch and feel it's not emotionally driven it's you know it's real property it's something you can touch and feel and then you know also plain and simple, people need a place to sleep and a multi-family provides that. You know there's a thousand people moving to Texas a day, they need somewhere to sleep and you know and this is the reason why we love Dallas and Houston you know there's more and more employers moving from the west coast you know to you know to these states such as Florida and Texas and Arizona and all those new new workers need to need a place to sleep and multifamily provides them affordable place to live you know it's very much workforce housing and that's what we look for. And then lastly cash flow I mean you have a low risk profile asset class and and then you're receiving a yield I mean it's basically the best of both worlds.
Buck: Yeah I mean you know I think the the thing that you said that really resonates with me in general and I've said it on the show number times recently is that boring is good right, it's good boring is good this is and take it from a you know a serial entrepreneur type guy myself I mean I've chased enough shiny objects and what's always amazing to me through that period over the last decade is that through everything that has failed and that has gone well, one thing just keeps doing well it's boring but it's called multi-family real estate and that's been my experience you know. So again just advice to just general advice not financial advice don't stay away from something cuz it's boring. Don't go chasing things because you look bright and shiny they look exciting because weather exciting there's inherently more risk. Boring is good. But let's talk about the Western wealth capital because when you think about the Western Wealth Capital model you know it is quite opposite from some of the more boring ideas of when you think of REITs and stuff, it's actually pretty electric. I mean Ken McIlroy who we you know we had this meet up as you recall it was about a year ago in Phoenix Scottsdale and Ken was there and Ken was obviously has known Dave Steele for you know a very long time and they're friends you listen to what you know Dave had to say and he called it a quote money machine right, and that's pretty high praise from a guy like Ken you know and a lot of people trust can I trust Ken. So what exactly is it you know that makes this machine what it is? I mean it's annualized returns of 30 percent for investors through all divestments and you know the speed at which things are working. What is it that makes this different? What is this money machine?
Tim: Well firstly I mean that super high praise from a guy like Ken I mean he's had massive success in this space and you know as you mentioned Dave Steel can go way back and that's huge praise from Ken and that was fantastic when he did say that. Our model you know is pretty simple you know what buck really what it comes down to his execution of her plan you know. I'm a big believer and you know you may have the best business plan on the planet the best digit whatever it is but if you can't execute guess what it's useless and you know our our system our process is repeatable scalable we execute on day one and that means day one of take over when we take over a property but before we take over a property you know we already know what color we're gonna paint the building, we know what the pool furniture is going in, we know what the monument sign is gonna look like, you know the Landscaping's been you know taken care of, the leasing office is basically going to be remodeled as well on day one you know we're putting fliers under the doors of the tenants and we're saying hey do you want an ensuite washer and dryer you know all the statistics that we read that that was the number one ask from tenants is an actual ensuite washer and dryer and it's mind-blowing to me that property owners out there that have pre plumbed washer and dryers but actually don't put watch her dryers and you know we simplistically threw a flyer on the door and said if you will it would like a in-suite washer and dryer you know for an extra forty or fifty dollars a month just to let us know we'll install it and on Tuesday you'll have a washer and dryer, the balance a month no charge but you know as of the next month you know there will be a forty or fifty dollar charge and you know what you got to look at is that the installation that washer and dryer for for you know four-year $50 a month based on a cap rate it works out to about an increase in equity on a per door basis of about ten thousand dollars. And again like you said it comes down just simple math and then you know we throw in our goal start renovations where you know we can turn a unit and about you know eight days at a cost of about 60 to 50 to turn that and you know if we're charging a hundred and twenty-five dollars for that goal style renovation you know based on a certain cap rate buck you again that per door you know equity in valuation has gone up by $30,000. So it really what it comes down to simplistically math and the ability execute and that's something that we're good at both.
Buck: Yeah you know the way I think about it in and tell me we think of this analogy because you know, listen at the value add real estate is not a new concept you know there's a lot of opportunity for a long time, but to me what the difference when I look at it is that most value add operators and I'm talking about even you know a lot of well-known ones they're really operating at a boutique type level of business right, I mean they're sort of like the you know the if you look at in terms of restaurants they're the cafe around the corner run by the mom-and-pop and you know they've got an idea and they you know they run it well they get some good stuff going on they get nice ingredients but the reality is there they may not be infinitely they may not be running it quickly and as profitably as it can be. What's remarkable to me when I look at what you guys have put together there is you've got effectively a you know a McDonaldization right like a you've taken something, a substrate like apartment buildings you know 25-30 million dollar 70 million dollar apartment buildings and commoditized the turning of those in such a manner that it literally reminds me of a Mcdonald's type you know or you know some kind of industrial boom boom boom boom get it done kind of thing and whereas you might think well that's not gonna you know result in as good a product, the reality is the repetition the repeating the same thing over having the same type of you know operations over and over make you better and better and faster and that I just don't see anywhere else and I'm curious kind of what if that's the same you know what you see is the difference from others.
Tim: Yeah we're constantly working on our processes and you know you said it's repeatable and scalable and you can call the McDonnells ism theory but you know that that's what drives us very much and again you know it does come down to execution as you mentioned you know there's a lot of syndicators out there that really say they're in our space or they’re in the value-add space you know but they really don't spend that equity they don't have that team in place that can actually execute and that's one thing that's different about Western Wealth Capital is you know Jan and Dave do spend the money we do have the right people in all of the asset locations that we are situated and and we're not happy with six out of ten you know we live in a world where ten out of ten makes make sense.
Buck: The other part that I think is really different is speed right, because and again from from the standpoint of a guy who's interested in looking at things from you know mathematical way I mean I like equations I like things that have definitive you know ways of looking at things, the one thing that people don't usually think about is speed right. So you're going to do this at scale you're going to turn this you're gonna get so much you know increase in apartments and net operating income but if you can contract the amount of time it takes to get there you've effectively doubled your return and that presumably is a you know that that's why you're getting the kind of returns you are I mean don't you think that speed is probably the variable that is most unique?
Tim: Very much so and how I look at that is you know we're a very conservative organization all of our models are they're cookie cutter we were big believers and under promising and over delivering you know Janet's math background she’s a computer scientist by trade exactly you know it's very math based you know we have a Wow program we had a while but 1.0 we now but while 2.0 but so what we're trying to do is just increase the speed of how you know how quick we execute and really what that comes down to Buck is you know for our investors is we're you know we're de-risking their investment from day one. We're increasing the value of that property so quickly that we are literally moving the cap rate from let's say by a five to six or six and a half because of the execution of our business plan.
Buck: There's another part of that speed and you know that that that's really pertinent to investors and that is the idea of getting your money out of the deal we always talk about in terms of Western or in terms of the Wealth Formula you know mass times velocity times the leverage so velocity being like how quickly you get your money back out of a deal. One of the things I think is really interesting is the use of the supplemental loan program. Can you explain kind of how that works to people who don't know about it and you know some of the advantages of doing that.
Tim: I mean just very high level you know when we buy a property and we're gonna use some round assumption numbers here but let's say we buy a building for twenty million dollars you know we're typically using agency debt, the lender will actually provide us with a loan you know 100 percent valuation of that property loan to cost and so let's say the full twenty million dollars however they will not you know of course fund us that full amount. Typically it ranges anywhere from you know based on our models sixty five to up to seventy two percent you know of that LTC. Then as we create that value in that property as we execute and at the speed that we do or you are you know we creating value quickly we can go back after twelve months to our lender and instead of doing a whole refinance package which typically is quite expensive we just go back and and have our lender revisit the financials and basically pull a supplementary, so again if that building goes from 20 million 25 million, they will release anywhere between 65 to 70, 72 percent of that additional five million dollars in equity that we've created what we do with that equity well we give it back to our investors. So our whole model is and we've again under-promise and over-deliver here but you know what we pro forma is to return 50 percent of the investors equity between a 24 to 36 month period and then another 25% so up to 75% between a 36 and 48 month period and then up to a hundred percent of their original equity back between a 48 and 60 month period. So they still retain their original percentage ownership in the building the same number of units, however as you just mentioned Buck what it does do is it puts money back into their pocket a lot quicker. They can in turn reinvest that into something else and you know again the velocity of their money is in the velocity returns.
Buck: And that's really the key you know is that the cash out refi model is nothing new, but you usually don’t see it for about five years and then you get you know maybe you get a refi and hopefully you get your capital back out of the deal and you've got what we call infinite returns but what we're talking about here is really unique because I know you mentioned 24 to 36 months just looking over the history it looks like the average has been about 18 months where investors are getting about 50 percent of their capital back and then you know a year later whatever they're getting over the next year or two they're getting the rest of it back. By the way the model does not allow for a split until then so in other words the operators not getting paid you know and any part of the equity until a 100% of capital is returned. Well what that does is it allows you to take you know not wait for years but wait you know assuming it's 18 months 24 months whatever and if you get if you invested a hundred grand take 50 grand back and put it into something else now you've got an opportunity to make money in two places at the same time with the same capital and that's where the numbers really go off the hook right that is kind of the the thing and then as Tim mentioned it's also derisking. So tell us a little bit about like you know kind of your track record in terms of doing this kind of stuff.
Tim: Well I mean I'll tell you a little story about one of our investors you know he started with us it's actually five years ago now we're six year old company but it took about a year of research for him to give us his his first dollar but so it's been about five years ago he started investing with us he spread $750,000 you know throughout a couple of deals he started coming in and you know we do the dip your toe in with a certain amount and then you know the investment level got a little bit larger and so his total investment you know with Western Wealth Capital was $750,000 and you know he's funny he comes to offer wine and cheeses and he basically said I'm not gonna give you any more money I'm done but I promise you this what I'm gonna do is every single penny that you give me I'm gonna reinvest it. So you know through all of our refis are just divestments dispositions which we've had 31 to date so every penny he's given back to us he's actually equity level and ownership of properties with us is just now under four million dollars five.
Buck: So seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars total investment over like you know spread over several deals or the last five years is not worth about four million bucks.
Tim: And he's just continuing to roll it yeah he's doing. Actually should I should ask him and I show the top the pin but he loves to talk probably I should take him on tour with me.
Buck: I want to get him on the podcast. That comes out to roughly an eighty nine percent annualized return on capital. Well what's interesting to me is that with you know these kinds of returns people assume there's got to be a lot of risk right I mean how do you hit thirty percent annualized returns how's this guy get a nine percent annualized return, but in fact you know the two elements and you've alluded to this before that tend to theoretically make these opportunities even more stable than most offerings is that first you know you've obviously got a heavy capital expenditure budget because this whole thing is about turning you know really neglected properties into really high quality properties, if anybody's ever been on a Western wealth tour you'll see it's just amazing, but so it's a huge you know it's a it's a big investment up front that's raised from the capital from the equity. But one of the beautiful things about that is hey you're not you know we're not gonna just try to expect that we're gonna generate all this income from the property right and that creates this level of cash that's sitting up front. That is one thing that in my mind significantly de-risks the opportunities is that there's a huge capital stack sitting there waiting, but then there's also the other idea that where as we're driving equity into this and we're making a profit hopefully by driving cap rates up dynamically in real time, you're essentially creating you called it de-risking the property right I mean those are the two main elements, is that kind of how you see it in terms of mitigating risk?
Tim: Yeah hundred percent I mean not only mitigating risk but also you know it comes to returns you know when we model a property and then when we send her a basically executive summary though you know we're not showing 30% returns and that's what we've actually achieved in our past, we've had 31 dispositions for an average hold period 29 months for an average return of 30 percent annualized so we're not showing that you know what we're basing our math typically is working out between 17 to 20 percent annualized returns based on the property very conservative based on how the performance exactly you know when we have a property with say 200 units we're not saying we're gonna execute our value add proposition on 80% 85% we're saying we may do sixty sixty-five percent. And that's where we come up with these 17 to 20s you know plus our refinance of 50, 75 and a hundred you know but again the whole goal Buck comes down to is again under-promise and over-deliver and as well as you can and under-promise and over-deliver but you better be able to execute and and the speed and again we're very good at we're obsessed actually that's the word we use we're obsessed with execution.
Buck: That's pretty obvious. How big, because we talked about how this has been, this has been a lightning bolt of a business in terms of growth. How much how much property is under management now?
Tim: We're just under 16 thousand units.
Buck: And what does that come out to in dollars? I’m putting you on the spot but you move so quickly.
Tim: So last year actually 2018 we purchased 16 buildings. In 2019 we purchased 19 buildings. Our goal this year is 24 you know however you know we do have you know different sources of that's gonna be a billion dollars we're nowhere well we're over 2.2 billion 2.2 billion.
Buck: Okay so we've got all this good stuff going on and there's skeptics out there and for good reason that say well gosh you know what's you know what are you gonna do when the market changes I mean we talked about some of the things that you can do to de-risk that like you know you're decompressing your own cap rates by creating this dynamic you know driving of net operating income but what happens in that scenario and typically you know a cycle like that might last a couple years. If you have a situation where you decompress cap rate so and you you're certainly in a position to be safe because you got about a bunch of money in the bank you know you've driven up your income, but then what do you do then to to you know to try to maximize yield? Do you just you know hold on to the property and and wait for better days or what do you do?
Tim: I guess the worst-case scenario is as you mentioned you sit in cash, again, we're a bit unique we don't have to borrow our capex we raise our capex so you know we'll sit on a lack of cash you know if required we can still continue implementing our value-added program because again you know in a crunch period of time try and get money from a bank or your agency you can't so all of a sudden syndicators just have to stop we raise that capex so we can keep going if we want but I mean worst case scenario is is we sit in cash flow you know but we also what we look at is in the markets that we deal is you know or where we have assets for the markets that we really like is you know we take a real look at the A type of properties existing or being built and you know we love buying buy a right you know a C or C plus type of building right beside an A because you know the individual is that you know that's paying 20 to 50 a month for an eight hundred square foot a type of property you know when that market does change you know are fifteen hundred and fifty dollar 1100 square but newly renovated unit plus completely upgraded and amenities is it gonna look fantastic and save that individual seven hundred dollars a month. So you know again it comes down to de risking and your investment and you know that's one of the aspects that we look at is that a type of property in the area but again worst-case scenario is yeah yeah we stuff it full only cash flow.
Buck: So I mean just to be clear we're talking about C-C plus you know probably now what you guys call C me it's probably more C plus moving it up to like a B-Bplus in it you know like you're in a area or something like that is effectively the idea you know speaking of the markets though one of the things that I think is how you know when you right now I've been saying one of the most critical aspects of buying real estate right now is picking the markets because you know when times when things are hot and things are you know markets are flying that's when you get like these you know you get these tertiary markets that are people start chasing yield where in situations where you know if the market turns there's really no natural growth there, there's no not new industry there's not that I mean how much of that goes into market selection can you kind of talk about your process there?
Tim: Yeah you nailed it Buck you know we're seeing a lot of other firms you know chasing yield, chasing returns, there's a lot of equity out there but there's also a lot of kind of startup syndicators trying to make a mark and so they're trying to chase returns and and what they don't see in what we see with we know over a hundred transactions maybe, they don't see the deal flow that we see you know we're seeing 22 to 30 deals in about twelve different cities a week but you know we see other firms you know buying in those first rate markets and that you know we'll never do that you know you know. So when the market does correct you know the place to such late such as you know Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Phoenix these these markets that are in your top five to ten type markets for economic growth when there is a correction, yeah they may correct a little bit however if you're buying in a market at right now is ranked number fifteen fifteen sixteen seventeen and it's there now just because it's kind of you know, when the market does turn guess what's gonna happen it's gonna go from fifteen sixteen to thirty thirty-one. You know our philosophy isn't you know we don't buy and cross your fingers and hope that the market goes up you know that is just not our value proposition again we're going to markets that are stable strong economic growth there's companies moving there and then basically it comes down to executing your model.
Buck: Yeah and you know and I think that's an important thing. There is this constant sort of tension between finding yield but also staying within markets that have strong job growth and you know population growth. And so the nice thing about you know major markets you know you know Houston and Phoenix and some of these markets that are you know they're not New York and LA but on the other hand they're growing like gangbusters they at the end of the day even if you have a change in sort of the overall real estate market you have this this other opposing force which is the growth in population and that isn't gonna presumably that's not going to stop people are moving there for a reason. Tough economic times they're only gonna make them move there even more.
Tim: Just a funny story Buck I was talking I was in Calgary last week which is a part of Canada, talking to a farmer last week and he explained this this way Tim he says I have a chicken and I want to make sure my chicken is laying eggs but in the long run I want to make sure my chicken’s safe at the end of the day. It's so simple and you're giggling but really that's what it comes down to. I want my eggs but I want to make sure you preserve my chicken and that's definitely Western Wealth Capital.
Buck: Capital preservation. For a group that's plugging out those kinds of numbers capital preservation you know being part of the equation is a nice relief as well. So tell me what's the plan again for this year 2020 west from wealth capital? What Mark do we looking at? What's the goal?
Tim: Well I you know we're currently in five markets I just discussed San Antonio, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, second largest owner operator in Phoenix there's about twelve cities that know we followed very closely our goal for 2020 is to add two new cities so that means not you know not to have assets and five to have have them in seven you know the type of you know type of markets we're looking at is you know whether we're looking to Nevada so we're looking at Vegas we're looking at Denver of course at Denver Florida many centers and Florida as well to you know Washington, Washington State, Seattle, Portland, Nashville as well too. So you know we have a six member acquisition team and we always joke I'm not sure who lives in airports more of them or them or myself but we're kicking a lot of tires, but the goal is again here to be into you know two new cities we just don't move in a city unprepared we do a lot of homework we do a lot of back check. We don't you know we actually are before we move in a city we don't want to buy one building we're gonna go in and typically buy three buildings you don't you know we want to get you know we want to have a thousand fifteen hundred units.
Buck: That's part of the exit plan too. I mean and and that's one of the things that I think is important to one of the reasons that you end up getting paid more for these is you're not selling when building at a time you're wrapping it up to like seven or eight buildings at a time and selling it at a premium to a big you know to a big institutional buyer.
Tim: Yeah and for numbers we're probably looking at I gained one a month so probably twelve twelve deals this year so for on a deal full perspective so another ambitious ambitious goal first rate.
Buck: I’m just curious one thing and I don't know how much you've actually looked into it but it's funny that you mentioned Vegas behind I brought that up too because I remember the economist that we had at our last meet of in the growth in in in you know just in people moving into Vegas is insane right, well the question is is it real this time right?
Tim: It is you know you look at the the jobs I believe it you know not that long ago over sixty percent was you know in that hospitality sector I believe that's under forty percent now you know so that just shows that there is there's other types of opportunity now in Las Vegas and it's not solely dependent on the casinos and you know and again it's you know it's another state.
Buck: It’s just one of those things where it's like what's the difference between living in you know in a climate wise say Las Vegas Nevada in Phoenix Arizona and people are in Phoenix is growing very quickly and then Vegas all of a sudden now they've got a you know they're gonna have a football team they have an NHL team it's starting to seem like a normal thing to live in Las Vegas.
Tim: It's like anywhere Buck, it's any state or city you live in there's tremendous opportunity in great pockets I've I know a lot of people that live in Vegas and you know you joke the first question is about the strip and it's like any city you live in they all just kind of chuckle and say you know we may go this trip once a quarter you know it's like me going downtown for dinner with my family it's right you know it's the same concept.
Buck: Well Timmy I don't want to keep you too long. It's been great to have you on the show and for those of you who want more of Tim you can read about them you know Western Wealth Capital website otherwise you can join Investor Club if you are an accredited investor and that's where Tim frequently does webinars for us. Tim again I want to thank you it's great to have you on the show finally.
Tim: Thank You Buck, I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.
Buck: We’ll be right back.

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